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  1. #521
    zoebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas.grok View Post
    willing to support smoker's rights?
    I'm not sure what "smokers rights" specifically are, or what smokers would be seeking. They have the right to smoke in their own homes and out of doors, but not in public buildings per se. I think this makes sense simply because it does have a big effect on others (particularly asthmatics, and the population of those folks is growing every day).

    But, I certainly support their right to smoke in their homes and out of doors. Similarly, I think that 'responsible' recreational drug use should also be legal (in the order of switzerland -- the way they do things is pretty decent). I mean, it's fine with me if people do that in their homes or in a recreational space that is safe for it, so long as their children are taken care of and safe in the process, kwim?

    Would people supporting the fat acceptance movement support gay and lesbian rights?
    I already do and have for over 20 years now. Since before I was a teen even. I think I was a primary school kid when I decided that gay people were 'getting robbed' in terms of civil liberties.

    But, we are also talking about different things. The fat acceptance movement is really a social movement to get people to not treat fat people cruelly and to also help fat people accept themselves. no laws or regulations needed.

    The other two movements have political/legal implications. So, they are different.

    I think that in terms of advocacy, people tend to need to focus. Right now, I'm on a little crusade to encourage yoga teachers to form peer supervision groups and/or get one-on-one supervision. It's a professional game-changer. And, the profession needs to be changed right now.

  2. #522
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    it might be important to remember that fat acceptance isn't a civil liberties issue (at this time). it's a social issue.

    uhm, i think that both ladies on the images are nice, but they have a very different 'look' and body type as well. I mean, i could work out just as those athletes do, and I won't look the same. My body type is different (closer to the "girl on the right" or the model) -- tall and thin -- but I do have larger muscles than your average ectomorph. Those athletic ladies appear to be mesomorphs (pretty center-of the meso spectrum), and so they are much larger (more muscular) than I would be.

    It's possible to appreciate the beauty of all body types -- fat, muscled, thin. Honestly, I do admire all kinds of ladies. And I admire all kinds of men too.

  3. #523
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    My whole point of view is that you have the right to do whatever you want, as long as that doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

    You can fall in love with anyone you want, as long you don't take MY man!

    You can smoke yourself into a chimney if you want, as long as I don't have to directly breathe it.

    Where this becomes an issue is where kids get involved. Not cool to smoke in a closed car with your kids in the backseat.
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  4. #524
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    Back to the pictures of the two .... well, the ONE woman and the person who looks like a 12 year old GIRL. Does that bother anyone else? Somethin's effed with advertising ... we've got grown women who are supposed to look like children, and children that are supposed to look like grown women slash ho's.

  5. #525
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    I have no problem if a woman has the look she has.

    I can understand the criticism of the media, the sexualization of children, etc. Certainly, in many ways I agree.

    The confusion comes in where we criticize the individual for something that is not really her doing. She was born as she is, and then she was hired for this campaign to do a job. It's not wrong for her to look that way. It doesn't make her a bad person.

    I also look young. In my 20s, most people thought I was a teen. Here in my 30s, people think I am in my 20s. I'm also rather shaped like a barbie doll, and I'm fit and have a flat stomach. The vitriol that I get about this stuff from people is amazing. And they don't even mean it. "Repost if this is you: I may not have a great figure or a flat stomach, but I'm an amazing person who wheres PJs all day long sometimes, can bake a mean cake. . . etc." And of course I'm like "well, I can't repost because I have a great figure and a flat stomach, and I also can't back a mean cake to save my life. Still, I get the sentiment."

    The idea here that fat acceptance will transition to is simply "acceptance" of the diversity of physical expression that people have.

    It's ok to be a super-thin model-type if that is what you are. It's also ok to be fat. It's also ok to be muscular. it's also ok to be tall. it's also ok to be short. It's ok to just be what you are without criticism.

    And if you get used in an advertising campaign, good for you.

    If you have qualms about how those images are used or what they project -- then yes, lets talk about that. It's worthwhile to talk about how that media impacts our society.

    but lets not bash the people in the photographs for being what they are in the process. It's ok to be whatever you are.

  6. #526
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    My 400 pound aunt could sing the roof off of a church. She had lap-band surgery, is now 160 pounds and can still sing the coonskin off of Davy Crockett. She received a ten-minute standing ovation at our wedding. She also speaks fluent German, has ten-year-old twins and is a bouncer. You don't mess with her, but she's the sweetest, kindest person to those who are decent humans and deserve it. If some skinny, snarky bitch decides that they want to tell her, to her face, that they don't "accept her movement," well, good fu**in' luck to you. I won't stop her.

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    It's ok to be a super-thin model-type if that is what you are.
    As long as you can do that without developing an eating disorder, right?
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  8. #528
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    I'm not discussing potential "grannies having wheels they must be a wagon" scenarios.

    In this world, there are a spectrum of body types from very thin (ectomorphs) to very large (endomorphs) and a wide range in between. Some people look naturally more youthful, and others look older than their years. Some are tall and some are short.

    None of these attributes mean "full of health" or "without health" inherently. It just means that we can look at people of different types and go "all is acceptable." we don't have to be mean to them (i.e., we can treat them with dignity).

    Throughout the thread I have said repeatedly that we can accept people while still promoting a healthy lifestyle in general. I don't need to say "thin people shave eating disorders" or "fat people have eating disorders." It may be that either one does. I don't know. BUT I can't say in general. I could only answer that *in specific* -- that is to say, if I'm in some form of relationship with a person who is obviously manifesting an eating disoder to get a certain "look" -- then we can discuss this.

    But that doesn't mean that the idea of accepting people, in general, is problematic.

  9. #529
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    Zoe-

    I think that much of the problem with using the female form as represented in photographs from the modeling industry is that the industry is so well known for driving the models to lower and lower weights even after they are at already very thin healthy weights for their body type.

    There have been entire documentaries made on the subject of disordered eating among models... agents have been known to tell girls to "do what ever they have to" and have other more experienced girls introduce them to the practices of vomiting/bulimia and drugs that help them not feel hunger so that they can trim up by just not eating at all/gateway to anorexic behaviors. Many young models don't stay in the business but carry the disordered eating patterns with them even after they leave because the massage that they received most consistently was "if you aren't thin enough, you aren't good enough".

    I would love to think that the picture of that very thin model is "just her"... but knowing what I do about the industry I have REAL doubts. My cousin modeled for a while, one of her best friends even longer... I don't think any of them had normal menses. I saw them eat a few handfuls of popcorn and half an apple as an entire days food intake. Most girls begin modeling as teens... and now nothing about good nutrition when trying to shave off the lbs.

    I also have members of my family (especially the men, and a few of the women, on my mothers side) who are just naturally very long/tall and lean and cannot gain weight no matter what... so I know that that body type exists, and I never automatically assume that a person I meet who is thin has any sort of disordered eating. They are lean, and healthy... they are who they are.

    But like I said... I really don't/can't feel the same way about the girls who are in the modeling industry.
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  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
    How about a paleo athlete?





    Hmmm... which one is a positive body image.
    Ah the CrossFap games...

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