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  1. #101
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    poor spacey, no one understands you!
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    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  2. #102
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    Not to mention the original question was why americans are fatter.

    If they answer is "Because they are lazy" then the question becomes, why are americans lazier than the rest of the world?

    I don't think that they are (or more virtuous, or more athletic, or more democratic). Americans are people, and they are much the same as people everywhere when you get right down to it.

    I would argue that large scale differences between cultures are invariably the result of differing cultural beliefs or historical / resource based differences.

    I've already suggested the US's farming subsidies distorting the food economy as one factor.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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    bloodorchid is always right

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacey47 View Post
    American food values are destroying health worldwide

    Here in the UK McDonald's, KFC pizza hut is turning British people into lumps of lard.
    It is costing the country billions in healthcare
    McDonalds, KFC and Pizza Hut have never made anyone fat or sick. Everyone knows those places are unhealthy, and none of them claim to be healthy places to eat, yet people eat there anyway. People make themselves fat.

    There are many overweight people out there that try very, very hard to lose weight. It's a constant struggle for them, but they try. The problem is CW is so ass-backwards, they're following terrible advice. It's not their fault and I truly feel sorry for them. It's the fault of the government and the healthcare industry that care more about grain subsidies and selling drugs than promoting a true natural human diet.

    However, the overwhelming majority of overweight people are overweight because they eat terrible food that they know is bad, overeat constantly and don't exercise.

    The overweight people that bust their ass are the minority, and that's an unfortunate fact. Do I feel sorry for overweight people in general? Absolutely not. I'll feel sorry for the individual - the person that busts their ass but hasn't found the truth yet. I'm not going to accept an entire group. I hate group mentality with a passion and I judge on an individual level.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    okay, what does weight have to do with that?

    version 1 of me: 130, smart, capable, helpful, out of the box thinker, etc etc etc
    version 2 of me: 230, smart, capable, helpful, out of the box thinker, etc etc etc

    how i look to the world overshadows my accomplishments?
    I haven't read much of this thread, but this post caught my eye. I don't know what the background of it is, but I'm going to comment on it anyway because I have strong feelings about it.

    How you look to the world does overshadow your accomplishments on a visceral level.

    You are human. As a human, your strongest sense is your sight. It's your primary method of perception. Evolution has built you to judge on looks. Looks are the very foundation of survival. There is a reason why we are more naturally attracted to thin people that overweight people. Being lean is a far better indicator of health, and as a species that for 98% of our history have not had food readily available, it's in our best interest to procreate with those that have strong genetics - these people will be leaner and more attractive, and therefore probably healthier.

    To believe in The Primal Blueprint but then bash someone for valuing thinner people more than overweight people is contradictory. To embrace nature, you have to accept that thin people will always be valued higher than overweight people in society because that's our basic survival instincts are work. Thinner people are more likely to catch food, less likely to be eaten for food, better able to climb trees and get fruit, they'll be able to walk longer distances for travel, they'll be less prone to injury or disease...the list goes on and on. This is just a fact of nature, and to deny that fact is ignorant.

    I'm all for tolerance, and I'd never advocate tearing someone down simply because of their looks. Always judge someone by their character first. But it is not wrong to be a "weightist". It's both natural and healthy to do so.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Looks are the very foundation of survival. There is a reason why we are more naturally attracted to thin people that overweight people. Being lean is a far better indicator of health, and as a species that for 98% of our history have not had food readily available, it's in our best interest to procreate with those that have strong genetics - these people will be leaner and more attractive, and therefore probably healthier.
    For most of recorded history being fat was a sign of health and social status. Thin is fashionable in our culture. It is not a universal truth for the human species.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 06-14-2012 at 09:52 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    But it is not wrong to be a "weightist". It's both natural and healthy to do so.
    Doesn't that depend on the individual persons version of "weightist"?

    There are people out there who would assume that a woman of average build, 5'6", and 110 lbs is "healthier" than a similar average build woman, same height at 150 lbs. Because they think skinny = healthy.
    Statistically, in that instance the 110lb woman is the unhealthy one, as she would be below the normal weight range according to BMI. And low weight individuals have nearly as many health problems as a group as the obese group does.
    The 150lb woman may look a bit soft, and is near the top of the normal weight range, but is probably the healthiest.

    Culture and media is skewing "weightist" views to favor those with very low body fat, or who are under weight... this is NOT the healthiest segment of our society. And I'd argue that it's not very natural that our preferences are skewed that way either.

    That said... I'm not arguing for people to STAY heavy.
    But I do understand a bit of the "love thyself" message behind the fat acceptance words.
    IMO a heavy person needs a good deal of self love in order to make the changes necessary to stick to dietary and lifestyle changes long term, which is what it takes to lose weight and keep it off.
    Sometimes fat loss is SLOW and difficult, and loving yourself AS YOU ARE makes it easier to see the positive no matter how little the increments are.
    Self loathing, or only loving the idea of a smaller you, leads to crash and burn cycles of loss and gain.(Or unhealthy levels of struggle and obsession without results... sound familiar Choco? I think I've read that post from even YOU.)
    For many obese people this leads to eventually giving up completely. Not healthy at all...
    Last edited by cori93437; 06-14-2012 at 10:33 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I haven't read much of this thread, but this post caught my eye. I don't know what the background of it is, but I'm going to comment on it anyway because I have strong feelings about it.

    How you look to the world does overshadow your accomplishments on a visceral level.

    You are human. As a human, your strongest sense is your sight. It's your primary method of perception. Evolution has built you to judge on looks. Looks are the very foundation of survival. There is a reason why we are more naturally attracted to thin people that overweight people. Being lean is a far better indicator of health, and as a species that for 98% of our history have not had food readily available, it's in our best interest to procreate with those that have strong genetics - these people will be leaner and more attractive, and therefore probably healthier.

    To believe in The Primal Blueprint but then bash someone for valuing thinner people more than overweight people is contradictory. To embrace nature, you have to accept that thin people will always be valued higher than overweight people in society because that's our basic survival instincts are work. Thinner people are more likely to catch food, less likely to be eaten for food, better able to climb trees and get fruit, they'll be able to walk longer distances for travel, they'll be less prone to injury or disease...the list goes on and on. This is just a fact of nature, and to deny that fact is ignorant.

    I'm all for tolerance, and I'd never advocate tearing someone down simply because of their looks. Always judge someone by their character first. But it is not wrong to be a "weightist". It's both natural and healthy to do so.
    is this going along the same lines of thinking that say 'everyone can eat 3 lbs of potatoes a day because *I* can eat 3 lbs of potatoes a day'?

    because maybe i'm remembering wrongily, but visual cues for health and fertility change about every 50 years or so. because now it's skinny. 60 years ago it was marilynesque curvy, in the 20s it was tomboyishly curveless, before then it was wasp waisted corsets, before that it was bustles (butt illusions) the size of a volkswagon, before that it was white powder and ridiculous wigs. and that's just sticking with north america and europe

    i mean even now across the world at least one country has the status quo as the bigger the better for their women

    to bash someone for calling overweight people landwhales is perfectly fine in my world. if they want to call me or other people like me landwhales well then, i guess i'll happily whip out my handy dandy insult notebook and start off sweet with just 'dumbass'

    because for some reason, some people are just dumb enough to think their opinion on how everyone should look or what everyone should like is cause enough for assholery

    also, this is just me scratching my head here, but what about all the people who like fat partners? or very fat partners? or partners with very large legs and hips?

    because for every condescending remark you make, as if i don't live in the real world too, i can remark that what YOU like is not what EVERYONE likes. do i really have to say that? that everyone likes different things?

    the primal blueprint is about health, btw. if weightloss happens then great
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  8. #108
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    It is debatable that "thin people have always been valued higher than overweight people. . ." There is plenty of art-evidence that would seem to indicate to the contrary.

    Likewise, it is not contradictory to the Primal Blueprint to value people equally, regardless of their size, shape, age, sex, race, etc. The primal blueprint is simply a methodology within the paleo/ancestral styles of diets. It doesn't categorize or evaluate individual people in terms of merit. It simply puts forth a concept about diet.

    That concept helps people achieve a healthy weight. People will define this under different terms -- and as such will decide which goals to pursue, when they are reached, and how to utilize the primal blueprint to maintain health as they understand it, and the weight that they want to maintain.

    this may include choosing to stay "fat" by social standards, but within healthy ranges overall, or where a person feels good. There's nothing wrong with making this decision. It doesn't mean the person is less valuable -- as a human being.

    It literally just means that they are more heavy than the modern construct of beauty -- which values a dangerous level of 'thinness' in my opinion. Likewise, I often find that subcultures -- like this forum -- might value a certain measure of leanness that, for many people, may not be truly accessible or easy to maintain.

    For myself, my body naturally dropped from an easy-to-maintain on a vegetrian diet 20-22% body fat to an easy-to-maintain on the primal diet 18-20% body fat. But, by this culture's standards, I'm not putting in enough effort if I'm not reaching for 15%.

    The reality is, I'm not really interested in getting to 15%. I know what it would take. 1. far more focus on exercise than I can currently manage; 2. far more restriction on my PB diet (and/or changing ratios, etc).

    Some might say "but that's not that hard!" But it is -- becuase I don't want to do it and I don't see any need to. Eating the way that I do now, and moving the way that i do not, I don'T have to think about my weight or body fat percentage at all. My life is easy and comfortable. I go to work (currently a bit over-worked), i have fun with my family, I eat delicious food, I have fun with friends (in environments where non-primal food is and sometimes I have a bit), and I love to do my yoga practice and my parkour practice (and when I can get to it, derby).

    It is simple, relaxing, fun.

    The idea of trying to "get to that magic number that the culture of MDA values!" just seems like completely needless stress.

    And yet, by that standard I'm "fat." Right?

    Anyway, all I'm saying is that if another person decides that moving from 30% body fat down to 25% body fat is "all good" and they feel that having a regular, normal, happy, balanced maintenance primal lifestyle (rather than being in the specific mode to loose weight), then why not just let them be? why not let them decide that this body fat percentage is great?

    Prticularly for a woman? Honestly?

    Because there's so much stupid pressure on all of us already (guys and gals), and ultimately, our body fat percentage doesn't determine our inherent value as human beings. It's just another number, and another label.
    Last edited by zoebird; 06-14-2012 at 10:03 PM.

  9. #109
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    Bloodorchid and Zoebird...
    You two should both take a bow.
    You deserve frantic crowds golfclapping!
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    poor spacey, no one understands you!
    Personally I could G A F!

    As for the you don't do what I do comments don't make assumptions about me, my work and responsibilities

    If you don't find time to eat and exercise right you will sooner or later find time to see the doctor and pick up your meds

    Ignorance is NO excuse everyone in the UK is aware about eating healthily albeit with wholegrains but the 5 a day message is everywhere some don't eat 5 a year!

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