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  1. #21
    maba's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel


    *Hugs* I completely understand what you mean. I accompanied my sis 5 years ago when she took my niece to get her shots. It broke my heart to see my 2-month old niece wailing in pain. What you describe will be me in about 8 months!


    Sheesh, isn't there are thing that's commercially sold that doesn't have HFCS or some corn derivative!!!


    I hope you and Baby are feeling better now Kam.


  2. #22
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    I took a look at that forum. It was just a bunch of emotional responses to things like formaldehyde and and mercury. Also, people were saying things like "I can't overstimulate my child's developing immune system" What? It's not meant to overstimulate, it's meant to have as directed a response as possible. Do you know the difference between a T-cell and B-cell immune response? A cell-mediated and a humoral response? No? Well the people that develop vaccines sure as hell do. There are a lot of good immunologists out there studying vaccine technology such as adjuvants. Are vaccines perfect? I doubt it, and I don't deny that a VERY small percent of the population may have a long-term negative response, but it is nothing compared to the impact that the diseases we are vaccinating for can have.


    I'm getting a little upset, but I guess it doesn't really matter, because if these diseases ever make a comeback we know who's going to be effected. Whereas, if they don't make a comeback then you made the best choice. So it's a trade off and parents can decide what side of the equation they want their children on.


  3. #23
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    The American vax schedule is far more aggressive than in other countries, which is why selective-vaxxing is skewed towards Americans. Just something worth noting, that in other developed countries they space out the vaxing and don't do quite as many to infants, so if an American mother is wary of the American schedule, that is quite reasonable.


  4. #24
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    It should also be mentioned that un-vaccinated kids are not necessarily being left to the proverbial wolves. Many of those kids (mine included) were breastfed, which does provide a pretty significant amount of immunity to many things. There's also such a thing as 'herd immunity' so let's not get judgmental and assume parents are being irresponsible in their decisions.


  5. #25
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    @hippie_mama -


    Breastfeeding doesn't not provide a complete set of antibodies from mother to child. Only certain antibodies. As far as I can tell from the literature, it does not appear that childhood illnesses for which children are vaccinated for are hindered in any way by breastfeeding.


    Herd immunity doesn't appear to have any basis, at least for humans. The recent measles outbreaks in California and Iowa affected only those babies who weren't vaccinated for measles--that's telling. In the UK, where the autism/vaccine hysteria reached a much higher peak than it did here, measles is on the rise and kids are dying because they're not being vaccinated.


    Remember that while Grok did have robust health thanks do diet and exercise, infant mortality is incredibly high in hunter-gatherer societies, and the mortality rates for women during childbirth was also incredibly high. We enjoy much lower infant mortality rates and much higher childbirth survival rates thanks to vaccinations and modern obstetrics.


    The CW may be wrong on its nutritional guidelines, but it isn't wrong on vaccines. Not by a longshot.


  6. #26
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    I'm glad other people are with me on this. I have actually read information on the other side (no-vax) and am in no way convinced that it is the right choice for my loved ones.


  7. #27
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    [quote]

    And i only got that way when my oldest started having negative reactions to them. That's when i stopped, not because some internet article told me to. I'm also specifically against the standardized and generally accepted schedule for vaccines--they're given too early, and in unnecessarily high dosages. I guess my official stance on the issue is 'pro- selective vaccinations.' Because i believe they should be given on an as-needed basis.


    In a perfect world, children would be tested for immunity and dosed accordingly with the vaccines they might really need.
    </blockquote>


    I really agree w/ your post hippie mama. It&#39;s just not a black and white issue.


    And I&#39;ve found, for me, looking at both stats along w/ personal stories (emotional as they may be), has been helpful in my decision making. I just think it&#39;s great when folks look into this issue at all (something I did not do before my son got his first few vaccines.)


  8. #28
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    [quote]

    So it&#39;s a trade off and parents can decide what side of the equation they want their children on.</blockquote>


    I think it&#39;s more than an either/or situation--there are many alternatives to the standard US vax schedule. You can delay vaccines, selectively vaccinate, get just one vax at a time (vs. 3) etc. I just think there are a lot of shades to this issue.


    I&#39;m also all for &#39;greening&#39; vaccines and getting some of the crap out of them...


  9. #29
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    "I think it&#39;s more than an either/or situation--there are many alternatives to the standard US vax schedule. You can delay vaccines, selectively vaccinate, get just one vax at a time (vs. 3) etc. I just think there are a lot of shades to this issue."


    FairyRae - I agree that there is definitely room for disagreement on scheduling. But the decision not to vaccinate at all strikes me as deeply dangerous. It wasn&#39;t that long ago, prior to vaccines, that horrible diseases struck children from all walks of life. I mean, Franklin Roosevelt was a privleged son of a VERY wealthy family, with access to the best money could buy. But he still got polio.


  10. #30
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    @hippie_mama:


    Yes, there is such a thing as herd immunity. The parents who choose not to vaccinate their children are causing quite a bit of damage to it. For most of these diseases, herd immunity requires that upwards of 80% of the population be immune. If a bunch of children in the same area are unvaccinated, the herd immunity in that area is shot. That puts all kinds of people at risk - the elderly, the immunocompromized, the people for whom the vaccination didn&#39;t work for some reason, the infants who are too young to have been vaccinated yet. Remember that for some vaccines, immunity wears off after years or decades. You may be able to survive whooping cough, but what about your hypothetical 90-year-old grandmother? What about your neighbor&#39;s new baby?


    @PrimalJak:


    Herd immunity definitely has a basis in humans. It&#39;s just not a bulletproof defense. Basically all it means is that if there is an outbreak in a population with herd immunity, it will be unable to spread. Those areas of England where kids are dying of measles no longer have herd immunity. Otherwise, the outbreaks would have been much more contained.


    The Wikipedia article on herd immunity is pretty handy:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity


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