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Thread: Varying between >50g and <50g carbs Low Carb Flu? page 5

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    If I am new to Sisson and the "Primal Blueprint" then how am I supposed to simply look at that diagram and determine it isn't a "one size fits all"? Is there some fine print I'm not privy to? It looks very intimidating and absolute to me?
    Like I said, a good place to start. From there you have to find out what works for you.
    How can somebody be intimidated by a graph?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Just did a bit of a search on "Low Carb Flu", seems this is the transition state of converting over to full Ketolysis, One link & Quote below:
    The Science Behind The “Low Carb Flu”, and How To Regain Your Metabolic Flexibility - GNOLLS.ORG

    The Difference Between Beta-Oxidation and Ketosis
    Here’s where I say something that might be controversial: I think going cold-turkey VLC (very low carb) or zero-carb makes the transition much harder, particularly for people who are already physically active.

    Beta-oxidation (fat-burning) occurs nearly continually, and produces much of our energy at rest once insulin has cleared any sugar spike out of our system. However, our body does have some requirement for glucose, which it satisfies in the short-term primarily by having the liver make it—a process called gluconeogenesis.

    If we eat zero carbs, or very few, over a period of time, our body enters a state called ketosis, in which some of our tissues that used to require glucose shift over to burning ketone bodies, which are alternative products of fat metabolism. And while it is true that our brains and hearts actually run more efficiently on ketones, it takes several weeks for our bodies to fully adapt. Meanwhile, we lack energy for high-effort activities, because our muscles are depleted of glycogen, which is made from glucose.
    See, it doesn't have to be zero.
    I know a lot of people do suffer horribly, or at least they write about it dramatically here. The durartion, however varies greatly. All I know is that I never had anything but a wonderful rush and a giant surge in energy from going into ketosis. Not every Body is the same.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    If he was to be less dramatic about it then I'd give him a pass but that wouldn't sell books, I suppose...
    I don't see it as dramatic. Simplistic perhaps. And yes, simple sells books, and CDs, and supplements. He never said this was a public service.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    And yes, simple sells books, and CDs, and supplements. He never said this was a public service.
    Actually that isn't true as he repeatedly operates under the notion that he just wants to help people. I believe his goal is 10 million people helped as per a recent blog post?

    I also disagree that "simple" sells books. What sells is promising folks a way to "cheat the system". All "diets" have to have a gimic, or something that distances them from "calories in versus calories out" or "eat less and move more".

    Amazon.com: The Bestselling Diet Books on the Market

    Find one on the list that doesn't have a BS gimmick...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird
    How can somebody be intimidated by a graph?
    Are you purposefully being an apologist or just trying to be argumentative? I'm going to assume you've read the book where that graphic came from, no? If you fancy yourself on the intelligent side as it relates to nutrition and human physiology then try to put yourself into the mind of someone who is utterly clueless and desperate. Now, look at this picture again and honestly tell me this wouldn't put the fear of God in you when it comes to CHOs? Make special note of large "danger zone", "obesity and illness", "store more fat", and "insidious weight gain" verbiage in bold.

    Read through all the threads started by the CHO fearing posters in this forum if you need more convincing...pseudo science + large influence = dangerous combination.

    carb-curve1.jpg

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    See, it doesn't have to be zero.
    I know a lot of people do suffer horribly, or at least they write about it dramatically here. The durartion, however varies greatly. All I know is that I never had anything but a wonderful rush and a giant surge in energy from going into ketosis. Not every Body is the same.
    Yeah, starting to get the picture, but would like to get something a bit more definative that "low carb intake"
    The link above had another one:
    The Ketogenic Diet for Health
    Got a bit of a guideline on going into the process, the general reccomendation is to gradually reduce the carbs, then 0 carb for at least 30 days to get a feel for it and allow the body to fully adapt.
    I checked out some of the epilepsy stuff as well, as I do have a significant interest in the diet:disease connections, as you say the majority is very low carb, but I will keep hunting as I would like to get a clearer understanding of which systems convert over to ketones at the varying carb intakes.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Actually that isn't true as he repeatedly operates under the notion that he just wants to help people. I believe his goal is 10 million people helped as per a recent blog post?

    I also disagree that "simple" sells books. What sells is promising folks a way to "cheat the system". All "diets" have to have a gimic, or something that distances them from "calories in versus calories out" or "eat less and move more".

    Find one on the list that doesn't have a BS gimmick...

    Are you purposefully being an apologist or just trying to be argumentative? I'm going to assume you've read the book where that graphic came from, no? If you fancy yourself on the intelligent side as it relates to nutrition and human physiology then try to put yourself into the mind of someone who is utterly clueless and desperate. Now, look at this picture again and honestly tell me this wouldn't put the fear of God in you when it comes to CHOs? Make special note of large "danger zone", "obesity and illness", "store more fat", and "insidious weight gain" verbiage in bold.

    Read through all the threads started by the CHO fearing posters in this forum if you need more convincing...pseudo science + large influence = dangerous combination.
    Hold the phone. Let's not get crossways here. First of all I like Mark on a personal basis. I went to PrimalCon and he is a heckofa nice guy. That said, the website content is free but he is in a money making business. I have no problem with that.

    I agree with you about the "cheat the system" approach. That's what I meant by simplistic. Looking for "the trick".

    Not trying to be an apologist or argumentative. I can see that a newbie might get the idea that those graphs were carved up on the mountain but then they figure it out. No harm done. And Mark has done numerous posts and "Dear Mark" articles with further explanations. I just think you're over dramatizing a bit. "Fear of God"? Seriously?

    The thing is though, lowering your carbs really does work for a lot of people. It worked for me. At least it kick starts the process. People can fine tune the plan later.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Yeah, starting to get the picture, but would like to get something a bit more definative that "low carb intake"
    The link above had another one:
    The Ketogenic Diet for Health
    Got a bit of a guideline on going into the process, the general reccomendation is to gradually reduce the carbs, then 0 carb for at least 30 days to get a feel for it and allow the body to fully adapt.
    I checked out some of the epilepsy stuff as well, as I do have a significant interest in the diet:disease connections, as you say the majority is very low carb, but I will keep hunting as I would like to get a clearer understanding of which systems convert over to ketones at the varying carb intakes.
    I would consider that to be a bit on the hardcore extreme side.

  8. #48
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    Hey Paleobird, thanks for the link and clarification--this was just what I needed.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom B-D View Post
    Hey Paleobird, thanks for the link and clarification--this was just what I needed.
    You're welcome. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I don't have all the answers to everything but I can tell you what worked for me.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Actually that isn't true as he repeatedly operates under the notion that he just wants to help people. I believe his goal is 10 million people helped as per a recent blog post?

    I also disagree that "simple" sells books. What sells is promising folks a way to "cheat the system". All "diets" have to have a gimic, or something that distances them from "calories in versus calories out" or "eat less and move more".

    Amazon.com: The Bestselling Diet Books on the Market

    Find one on the list that doesn't have a BS gimmick...



    Are you purposefully being an apologist or just trying to be argumentative? I'm going to assume you've read the book where that graphic came from, no? If you fancy yourself on the intelligent side as it relates to nutrition and human physiology then try to put yourself into the mind of someone who is utterly clueless and desperate. Now, look at this picture again and honestly tell me this wouldn't put the fear of God in you when it comes to CHOs? Make special note of large "danger zone", "obesity and illness", "store more fat", and "insidious weight gain" verbiage in bold.

    Read through all the threads started by the CHO fearing posters in this forum if you need more convincing...pseudo science + large influence = dangerous combination.

    carb-curve1.jpg
    +1. The carbohydrate curve has no scientific basis and is an embarrassment.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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