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Thread: Cold Water for Fat Loss, Muscle Recovery, and Increased Metabolism Thread page 31

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    I was thinking of a question last night, as I was laying in bed on my icepack. How does brown fat on my back, burn the bad fat elsewhere like on my tummy?
    Maybe I found part of my answer here
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-Tao View Post
    In 2005, right after my shower I experienced an incident of transient global amnesia. This is a rare condition that only effects about 1 in 20,000 people and one of the triggers happened to be immersion in cold water. So, I stopped. Transient global amnesia lasts about 12 - 18 hours, and I lost memory of the previous 6 weeks for that
    I would probably not get back in cold water if that happened to me. Who knows what the underlying cause is? Could happen again, I wouldn't chance it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    If human bodies operate at an optimal temperature of 98.6, why would we feel the most comfortable and have to work the least to feel comfortable at environmental temperaures in the mid 70s?
    It has to do with the 'thermoneutral point'. This is the temperature at which your body neither has to heat or cool itself. In air, the thermoneutral point is about 74 degrees F for a naked man. In water it's about 95 degrees. Water conducts heat something like 25 times more than air, that's why 70 degree water feels frikkin' cold while 70 degree air is tolerable.

    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Interesting question. I could not imagine being comfortable in 98. Kind of like inside of a car in the summer. As the temps go up on the outside, the inside gets even hotter.

    I was thinking of a question last night, as I was laying in bed on my icepack. How does brown fat on my back, burn the bad fat elsewhere like on my tummy?
    The BAT doesn't necessarily burn the fat on your tummy. It mobilizes fat stores and releases it into the bloodstream where it is picked up by the BAT and turned into heat. This begins when your skin senses a cold temperature and activates UCP-1 (uncoupling protein-1) in your muscles. The UCP-1 signals the BAT to become active. The BAT signals fat stores to be released so it has fuel. Normally the release of fat is triggered by other cells in your body to provide normal cell function which results in normal body temperature. It's called the ATP, or Krebs, cycle. The BAT has a mechanism to bypass the Krebs cycle and turn fat directly into heat. BAT is actually a very specified endocrine organ and not fat in the sense you think of fat. It's called fat because when looked at with the naked eye it resembles fat, but brown in color. They probably should have called it something else. BAT makes more sense when you think about it in terms of a human baby. Babies don't have enough muscle to shiver, so they rely on BAT to keep them warm.
    Last edited by otzi; 08-31-2012 at 08:29 AM.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    that's why 70 degree water feels frikkin' cold while 70 degree air is tolerable.

    Awweee so that is why..... Now I don't have to lay awake and wonder about that one

    The BAT doesn't necessarily burn the fat on your tummy. It mobilizes fat stores and releases it into the bloodstream where it is picked up by the BAT and turned into heat. This begins when your skin senses a cold temperature and activates UCP-1 (uncoupling protein-1) in your muscles. The UCP-1 signals the BAT to become active. The BAT signals fat stores to be released so it has fuel. Normally the release of fat is triggered by other cells in your body to provide normal cell function which results in normal body temperature. It's called the ATP, or Krebs, cycle. The BAT has a mechanism to bypass the Krebs cycle and turn fat directly into heat. BAT is actually a very specified endocrine organ and not fat in the sense you think of fat. It's called fat because when looked at with the naked eye it resembles fat, but brown in color. They probably should have called it something else.
    Oh wow, thank you for all that!! So it's an organ. Interesting. So when it increases, what happens? I mean like does it add bulk, weight, etc? Maybe you can't increase it that much to make a noticeable difference.

    I slept with it again last night. No worries, no freezer burn. I sit with it for a few hours while I surf around here while DH watches TV and mafia war, so it has already started to melt down by the time I go to bed. It is still pretty darn cold though by morning. I just now remembered to put it back in the freezer and it was very cold. I was surprised.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Oh wow, thank you for all that!! So it's an organ. Interesting. So when it increases, what happens? I mean like does it add bulk, weight, etc? Maybe you can't increase it that much to make a noticeable difference.

    I slept with it again last night. No worries, no freezer burn. I sit with it for a few hours while I surf around here while DH watches TV and mafia war, so it has already started to melt down by the time I go to bed. It is still pretty darn cold though by morning. I just now remembered to put it back in the freezer and it was very cold. I was surprised.
    This will make your head explode: (From Wikipedia)
    The mitochondria in a eukaryotic cell utilize fuels to produce energy (in the form of ATP). This process involves storing energy as a proton gradient, also known as the proton motive force (PMF), across the mitochondrial inner membrane. This energy is used to synthesise ATP when the protons flow across the membrane (down their concentration gradient) through the ATP synthase enzyme; this is known as chemiosmosis.

    In warm-blooded animals, body heat is maintained by signaling the mitochondria to allow protons to run back along the gradient without producing ATP.[citation needed] This can occur since an alternative return route for the protons exists through an uncoupling protein in the inner membrane. This protein, known as uncoupling protein 1 (thermogenin), facilitates the return of the protons after they have been actively pumped out of the mitochondria by the electron transport chain. This alternative route for protons uncouples oxidative phosphorylation and the energy in the PMF is instead released as heat.

    To some degree, all cells of endotherms give off heat, especially when body temperature is below a regulatory threshold. However, brown adipose tissue is highly specialized for this non-shivering thermogenesis. First, each cell has a higher number of mitochondria compared to more typical cells. Second, these mitochondria have a higher-than-normal concentration of thermogenin in the inner membrane.

    It was believed that after infants grow up, most of the mitochondria (which are responsible for the brown color) in brown adipose tissue disappear, and the tissue becomes similar in function and appearance to white fat. However, more recent research has shown that brown fat is related not to white fat, but to skeletal muscle. Brown fat also contains more capillaries than white fat, since it has a greater need for oxygen than most tissues.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    This will make your head explode: (From Wikipedia)
    You got that right! I need the Wiki for Dummies translated version ha. Actually I think I did follow it, surprisingly so

    Just all so fascinating. My weight loss for August was slow. Around 3 lbs. I just took some measurements, and a few places have gone down. Like an inch off my thigh, .5 around chest, etc. I added back in some elliptical w/tabata couple times a week, and a little ST, probably very little compared to others but I am getting back in the swing of it. And then this past week I added my ice back in a couple of nights.

    I also have not had red meat this week. My calories were up a bit this week on some days. I say a bit, it was actually substantial, like 300 - 500. I increased fat grams a day or two. And while I lost 3 lbs for the whole month, after a little gain, I actually lost 4lbs in 4 days this week with these changes.

    So I wish I could change just one thing at a time, but I always seem to do many things and can't pinpoint any one thing. uggh. But I am still happy. I was afraid that August was going to be a bust for me. The first month in 8 months will no foward progress so I am glad to pull a 3 out of it.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  6. #306
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    Okay, so why is it... I have been noticing that after I remove an ice pack from my back, shoulder blade area, that even though the skin is cool to the touch, (actually I dont think it is cool to the touch anymore) that just sitting here I have a warm sensation in that area (shoulder blade area). I am sitting here with the ceiling fan on and slightly chilled elsewhere, but in that area it feels like I have a heating pad on. I figure it has something to do with over stimulation of some sort, but it feels pretty good. Like a great big warm & fuzzy.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Okay, so why is it... I have been noticing that after I remove an ice pack from my back, shoulder blade area, that even though the skin is cool to the touch, (actually I dont think it is cool to the touch anymore) that just sitting here I have a warm sensation in that area (shoulder blade area). I am sitting here with the ceiling fan on and slightly chilled elsewhere, but in that area it feels like I have a heating pad on. I figure it has something to do with over stimulation of some sort, but it feels pretty good. Like a great big warm & fuzzy.
    Not sure, but also have you ever noticed that if you stand in a super-cold shower, it eventually feels like hot water--same as if you direct a stream of really hot (like 130 degrees) water on your hands, it suddenly feels like cold water after a bit. I used to notice this when I was a kid and I'd get into poison ivy, the only thing that would relieve the itch was running really hot water on the rash.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Not sure, but also have you ever noticed that if you stand in a super-cold shower, it eventually feels like hot water--same as if you direct a stream of really hot (like 130 degrees) water on your hands, it suddenly feels like cold water after a bit. I used to notice this when I was a kid and I'd get into poison ivy, the only thing that would relieve the itch was running really hot water on the rash.
    It's not the same sensation, but in researching this earlier this morning, I saw what you described, but can't remember now what that is called. I felt warm for quite some time. I didnt time it but probably 30 or so minutes after I got up this morning. And for the itchies, I know that hot hot water releases the histamines so it stops itching. I have had to do that before.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  9. #309
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    I have a pinched nerve in my back. Would a cold water shower help it?
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  10. #310
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    not a shower for certain.

    A full immersion could help reduce inflammation and speed recovery of an acute pinch.. a chronic pinch no
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