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Thread: Where is the energy??? page 3

  1. #21
    Sol y Sombra's Avatar
    Sol y Sombra is offline Senior Member
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    Paleo-bunny, would you please elaborate on this? I have no background in science and find it difficult to assimilate all the information I am getting from all kinds of sources. I know I don't have to be in ketosis 24/7 for the PB to work. I know ketosis can kick in when the body needs it to, as Mark says, if a moderate amount of carbs is consumed, but the body is still in fat-burning mode. I know it can vary between individuals, so 50 g/day is by no means an absolute amount. But apart from ketone breath or using ketone sticks, is there any other way of knowing that or when one is in ketosis? And is there a way of knowing how much glycogen is consumed and if one is depleted? My workouts are modest, I never feel really hungry afterwards, just slightly tired. Shouldn't I be ravenous, if I had indeed used up my glycogen?

    And one more thing: the Scandinavian LCHF movement "preaches" very low-carb (20 g/day) and they say that the body just needs a little time to adapt and then athletes and anyone who wishes to exercise can perform as good or even better on VLC, no extra carbs are needed. What do you say to that?

    I really value your posts on the forums, so please shed some light on these issues, when you find the time.

  2. #22
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    fiercehunter is offline Banned
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    I've noticed an uptick in hunger since the weather warmed up, just as I have been saying for months. If you have been doing LC or VLC the past few months and it's not working anymore, it could be seasonal and you just need to listen to your body and go ahead and have some carbs. Go buy some seasonal fruit.
    Fats are important also- maybe add coconut oil & be sure you are eating some butter daily, it contains essential minerals. That I think is the reason so many people get tired on paleo/primal, they eat the diet thinking it's magic without understanding nutrition/how the body works.
    Last edited by fiercehunter; 06-08-2012 at 07:15 AM.

  3. #23
    paleo-bunny's Avatar
    paleo-bunny is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol y Sombra View Post
    Paleo-bunny, would you please elaborate on this? I have no background in science and find it difficult to assimilate all the information I am getting from all kinds of sources. I know I don't have to be in ketosis 24/7 for the PB to work. I know ketosis can kick in when the body needs it to, as Mark says, if a moderate amount of carbs is consumed, but the body is still in fat-burning mode. I know it can vary between individuals, so 50 g/day is by no means an absolute amount. But apart from ketone breath or using ketone sticks, is there any other way of knowing that or when one is in ketosis? And is there a way of knowing how much glycogen is consumed and if one is depleted? My workouts are modest, I never feel really hungry afterwards, just slightly tired. Shouldn't I be ravenous, if I had indeed used up my glycogen?
    The ketone breath is a reliable enough indicator for me and typically lasts about 10 minutes or so. It always happens exactly when expected, mid to late afternoon. I eat most of my carbs in a late evening meal.

    Going into ketosis does not necessarily indicate that glycogen stores in the muscles are depleted or near depletion, but I believe one can infer that liver glycogen stores are near depletion. Glycogen levels in the muscles can be tracked through weight fluctuations (1 g glycogen is stored with ~ 4 g water), that's if weight doesn't fluctuate for other reasons (e.g. due to fluid retention elsewhere). Also by how tight your clothes feel - I can track this to a degree by how tight my jeans feel on my legs - there's quite a big fluctuation there as most of my cardio is weight-bearing. Still muscle glycogen depletion is not an easy thing to measure - in my case I get fluid retention from burning body fat and exercise, thus if I don't exercise for a few days on a calorie surplus my weight actually goes down temporarily!

    If you're not really hungry after workouts that's a good sign. You won't have used up all your glycogen if it was only a modest workout. I burn an estimated 100-120 g of carbs (and about 50-60 g fat) in a workout and don't feel ravenous afterwards. The proportion of glycogen to fat burned in a workout depends on the activity. I do a mix of yoga, weights, sprints and low-level cardio and estimate about 50:50 fat:glycogen burnt by calories.

    And one more thing: the Scandinavian LCHF movement "preaches" very low-carb (20 g/day) and they say that the body just needs a little time to adapt and then athletes and anyone who wishes to exercise can perform as good or even better on VLC, no extra carbs are needed. What do you say to that?
    While I'm not going to dispute that this works well for some folk, it wouldn't work for me. I believe there are different metabolic types. I do well on moderate starch and being active. It seems a lot of women do best in this moderate carb range of 100 - 200 g a day, depending on their goals. I tend to need fewer carbs during the summer but I still eat within the moderate range - yet I am more active and that's when I can lose weight easily.

    As I have seasonal affective disorder and body clock issues, I don't want to risk mucking up my tryptophan/serotonin/melatonin balance, and carbs are important for production of serotonin by the gut. Carbs have also helped me build a lot of muscle when timed post-workout, and help me sleep deeply and efficiently.

    I really value your posts on the forums, so please shed some light on these issues, when you find the time.
    Thanks - that's very sweet of you. Hope this helps.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  4. #24
    Sol y Sombra's Avatar
    Sol y Sombra is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you, that was very useful information!

  5. #25
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    Guys, I want to thank each and every one of you for your thoughtful and informative replies. I did, the past two days have some baked sweet potato "fries" with my dinner and feel a bit better.

    @ rosencrantz1 - I will check that book out as soon as I can - Thank you!

    I was just hoping to switch over to a more fat-burning metabolism, with the increased energy! But, it seems that my body is going kicking and screaming into it and is taking it's own good time with it.

    It really is amazing the extreme fatigue I've been experiencing since eating this way...

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