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Thread: What about Paleo/Primal for bodybuilding and physique athletes? page 2

  1. #11
    js290's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainFreeIronGoddess View Post
    I don't think it's JUST about the food types per say- its about the fact that bbers and figure/fitness athletes typically do several things that fly in the face of what it means to lead/live a primal lifestyle:
    1- two a day chronic cardio sessions, plus weight training usually (so we're categorically overtrained)
    2- Eating 6-8x per day
    3- Struggling to macro balance- carbs etc
    4- The ever present "peak week struggle" in which we macro manipulate, water manipulate and/or sodium manipulate and carb deplete or carb load to get in "peak shape" for the stage
    What is the purpose of that routine?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrainFreeIronGoddess View Post
    The body of a physique athlete during prep is not about feeling good or functioning its about looking good and I've read SO much about primal for ATHLETES but I'd REALLY love to know how the primal approach can and should be OPTIMALLY adapted to target figure/fitness/bbing athletes. I've prepped myself for two shows Paleo/Primal now, and am on my third contest prep as we speak and I'm just not 100% certain I'm doing thing optimally. I've done lots of googling and found nothing that really targets these issues....
    Which variable are you optimizing on?

  2. #12
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    1.How did you do in your two previous shows that you used Paleo/Primal to prep?
    2.Do you have a background in Biology or physical sciences?

    I ask because to solve what you are asking is going to take trial an error as stated in the above posts. I assume you are keeping a journal of every morsel that goes in your mouth and have since your previous shows. In PB it states that after having optimal results from CW diets and exercise regimens you will look and feel great for about 8-10 weeks after then your body starts to break down (I'm not talking over night), b/c it is over worked.

    3. How long ago were your previous shows?

    I would like to understand the reasons why to some of your questions too, b/c it seems like that's what is taught to achieve your results.
    IMHO if you have been able to have the confidence/physique to compete in even 1 show - you must be doing something right.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainFreeIronGoddess View Post
    I don't think it's JUST about the food types per say- its about the fact that bbers and figure/fitness athletes typically do several things that fly in the face of what it means to lead/live a primal lifestyle:
    1- two a day chronic cardio sessions, plus weight training usually (so we're categorically overtrained)
    2- Eating 6-8x per day
    3- Struggling to macro balance- carbs etc
    4- The ever present "peak week struggle" in which we macro manipulate, water manipulate and/or sodium manipulate and carb deplete or carb load to get in "peak shape" for the stage

    The body of a physique athlete during prep is not about feeling good or functioning its about looking good and I've read SO much about primal for ATHLETES but I'd REALLY love to know how the primal approach can and should be OPTIMALLY adapted to target figure/fitness/bbing athletes. I've prepped myself for two shows Paleo/Primal now, and am on my third contest prep as we speak and I'm just not 100% certain I'm doing thing optimally. I've done lots of googling and found nothing that really targets these issues....
    i'm fully aware of the routines that these types of athletes go through. like i said in my first post, i think the big 2 of paleo are eliminating the grains and eliminating the oils. that being said, the chronic cardio may or may not be necessary, depending on your pre-contest weight, how far out you start your prep, and how clean your paleo diet is in the first place. obviously, chronic cardio isn't optimal for health. then again, bodybuilding and fitness/physique competitions are really "healthy" either. that being said, if you have to push yourself to the point of "chronic cardio" pre contest then that's what you will choose to do with yourself.

    the whole "eating 6-8 times a day" really does fit in to the CW nonsense that is completely unnecessary. one can achieve optimal results from 1 or 2 or 3 meals a day of clean paleo foods. that type of meal frequency is only necessary when you are eating a carb-based diet. you could also look into a leangains styled approach. i know a lot of people around here are in to that.

    again "balancing macros" is easily achieved through the use of safe starch sources. sweet potatoes, bananas, tapioca starch, white rice, etc. if you need to get your carbs up, eat one of those things. i'm not sure how new you are to paleo, and how much experimentation you've done with your paleo diet, but you'll find that different strokes for different folks is kind of the way it works. there are tons of low carbers, vlc people, keto people, moderate carbs and even some high carb people. personally, i am extremely active with heavy lifting, HIT training, mountain biking and boxing, and i actually alternate days of low carb (under 50 grams) and high carb (200-300grams) and this has been working very well for me in terms of maintain bodyfat levels, muscle gains, and strength.

    again, the final week of contest prep can easily be done with carb sources that are not grain based. i'm really not seeing the problem here...

    all in all, it will take some experimentation on yourself to get that dry look on contest day. you mentioned competing 2 times while paleo. how did you look? how did you feel about how you looked? what could have changed? what are you currently doing for the 3rd contest and why do you think it isn't optimal?

  4. #14
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    i'm in the same position and it is just gonna be experimentation as to what works. 12 weeks out and i am trying this
    T NATION | Get Shredded Diet. i am ditching the cheese. adding in coconut oil and vit D as it is winter here. thinking about some IF with bullet proof coffee before my weekly workouts with the trainer. further to that, i walk 7ks or so a day on rough varied terrain with the dog. i do weights 1hr or maybe less a day and am getting a hulahoop to help burn fat for some of the chronic cardio. i am giving this 4 weeks to see what happens. then adjust what i have to. also doing yoga and will look at maybe doing some bikram yoga to help melt fat ( supposedly ) after the school hols.

  5. #15
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    IMHO, you are breaking a bit of new ground Iron Goddess. Bodybuilding CW (as opposed to SAD CW) differs in at least two ways from a primal/paleo diet. Bodybuilders are not concerned (yet) with gluten/sugar/processed foods the way we are. I've tried to have intelligent debates on BB.com about this very thing and I usually am met with sarcasm and ridicule for being some dietary whacko (the membership over there is not as gentile as this one!).

    The second difference, which I believe has already been mentioned, is the primal/paleo diet's goal is optimized health, whereas the bodybuilding diet's goal is optimized appearance. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive as a primal diet will work for building muscle/losing fat. The problem with the bodybuilding diet is the fine line between tweaking your diet for competitive appearance and going overboard and really screwing up your metabolism.

    I think the answer for you, given your background in sports nutritional science, is to do the research yourself. Mark's PB book changed my life, but imho, it's a little light on the science you need to go forward. I would recommend starting with Nora Gedgaudas' book Primal Body Primal Mind. She has a lot of nutritional science in her book, as well as an extensive further reading list. I disagree with her on protein intake (she thinks we don't need a whole lot, which definetely does not apply to athletes) but she's got some good stuff.

    Good luck and let us know how it works for you while competing!

  6. #16
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    I think the only challenge is not counting calories and macros. I'm trying to adapt my diet to a Paleo/Primal and I think it's very easy. But if you don't count calories and macros, then you have to make a very good plan and that's not too easy.

  7. #17
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    We have done some threads on it recently; Vince Gironda and the old-school guys (including Arnold) were paleo, although they didn't use that word, so it's not like it's a new thing. Steak, eggs, heavy cream, vegis, maybe some cottage cheese, water, done.

    bodybuilding diet of the 70s.m4v - YouTube
    Last edited by KimchiNinja; 05-26-2013 at 06:58 PM.

  8. #18
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    I competed in my first show (bikini) in April with paleo diet and placed first. I'm competing for my pro card in August and will be using paleo. I still eat 5-7 times a day because this is what works for me. It is still necessary for me to count calories so I do not have to do endless cardio at the end of prep for not losing enough weight through diet. I am currently 134 pounds and 5' 5" and will start at 1800 calories with 5x week weights and 3 days steady state cardio and 2 days HiiT cardio (30 minutes per session). If your diet is on point you should never need 2 hours cardio a day. I would love to hear more opinions on this topic as well!

  9. #19
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    Also, I used sweet potatoes as my starch carb source and squash on occasion. Preworkout: 4-6oz lean meat and 4-6 oz sweet potato ...Postworkout 4-5 egg whites + 1-2 eggs and 4-6 oz sweet potato OR only protein/ mrm powder with frozen fruit on a higher carb day (low carb day I did lean meat and asparagus or zucchini pre workout and a mrm protein shake or eggs Postworkout for insulin response without carbs)

  10. #20
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    As a bodybuilder for years now who also practices Primal Principles I will say contest prep is very individualized. Metabolism and how body responds to certain foods is highly individualized(when I did my final three weeks on the only carb source being potaoes and dropped rice and oats my body changed drastically, as well as the only veggie being broccilie) a lot of it is trial and error yes, some have to do massive cardio..others barely do any. What do YOU have to do to be ripped?
    With the training remember you are only doing THIS MUCH EXCESS FOR A SEASON...your not living like this..to do chronic cardio would be unhealthy all the time..BUT for a planned structure purpose it can help if you need it. Remember OVERTRAINING HELPS adapt to a greater level of fitness. But then you have to pull back to recover and reap the benefits from that overtraining.. Ths is how powerlifters get stronger. They plan to overtrain, then deload..
    To the non-competitor they will see a contest prep plan as not healthy.. but this is only for a contest.
    I think you can be a great bodybuilder doing primal.
    You may have to count macros unless you have great sensitivity and body awareness and know your body and how it responds and what it is needing.. this sensitivity takes years of practice.
    I only start counting macros the final 4 weeks at this point. I primal it all the way until the last month and make gradual reductions.
    (remove blueberries off oats on week 6, remove almond butter) etc. just gradually taper down.
    Cardio is a experiment. If you lose muscle easily..too much HITT will be a bad thing. Or for some people a few HITT sessions do better then 6 hours of long weekly cardio.

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