I Want To Be Wrong. page 2

[ChocoTaco369]

I had a pretty interesting experience about a month back. Since I lost my original 25kg I've hovered up and down in between 9% to 15% body fat over the last 12 months which actually takes me a fair bit of effort and diligence. I had also been experimenting with weekly refeeds a little as well.

Anyway, a month ago my uncle asked me to help him out in his bakery for a few days so I worked with him for 5 days and I thought "stuff it, i'll just eat whatever to make the most of a shitty job/situation". I had also remembered reading something about how if you really want to restore leptin, even a full day worth of refeeding/overfeeding probably wouldn't do the job and you won't get the same result with protein and fat, it had to be a real pig out over a few days and it has to be carb heavy. Perfect opportunity.
I tried to keep it mainly low fat but I wasn't obsessive, so for 5 days in a row I pigged out on cereal for breakfast, mushroom rolls, date scones, berry scones, chicken and beef sandwiches, pizzas with limited cheese but tonnes of bbq sauce, finger buns, raisin muffins with jam etc. I was probably averaging around 3500 - 4000 calories at about 70% carbs. I usually eat around 1800 - 2200.
I was still making myself a primal meal of steak and vegetable for dinner to add at least some sort of dietary balance.

I felt pretty cruddy doing it (partly psychological because I thought I was destroying my health goals but at the same time it was pretty damn enjoyable) and by the end of the 5 days I was a little bloated and had visibly put on a little abdomen fat. Over the next few weeks I went back to my standard low/moderate carb primal diet and I shed the weight effortlessly, not only that but my sleep has improved, my appetite regulated, I have more energy, I wake up easily in the mornings and I just feel better overall without the afternoon slump. Sometimes I'm even awake at 5am wishing it was 7am already so my day would begin, something I haven't felt in years. I think it was something my body really needed.

I'm not really recommending it to anyone as I'm sure it could backfire on a lot people (especially celiacs or the gluten intolerant lol). But I do think some people could do with a bit of a break if they've been steadily trying to maintain a certain BF% and it has down regulated thyroid function and BMR, which it obviously had done for me. It's something I'm probably going to repeat it every 6 months or so but I'll be a bit more sensible with it next time around using more foods like rice, rice bubbles, potatoes, sourdough bread, skim milk and maybe even some scones, jam and cereal for old times sake.

This is fantastic advice IMO. Back when I did the UD2 and was reading a lot by Lyle McDonald (who is an overly pompous and self-righteous douche, but he is smart and knows his stuff), he recommended everyone do a full week eating larger amounts of carbohydrates to "reset" their metabolism. Obviously, you'd have to drop fats in lieu of the carbs, but your metabolism seems to be less affected by brief periods of low-fat than brief periods of low-carb.

I think I'm going to take your advice. While I think you "did it wrong" in the sense that you chose the wrong foods, I like the methodology (I just have no desire for bread and pasta anymore but I am ALL OVER fruit, potatoes and a little rice). I've probably been averaging 40-50g of fat/day, so I probably shouldn't immediately jump into the 100+g range. I think I'll do the first week upping carbs on off-days to 150g/day and bumping fats to 70g/day for a whole week, THEN I'll drop carbs to the 75g range and up fats. I have learned by now that the body doesn't respond well to change and "gradual" seems to be usually preferrential to "shock." 40g/fat per day to 100g/fat per day is closer to "shock" than I want to be. I'm sure I'll in the short term GAIN fat with this change, but in the long run, I think it'll benefit.

[not on the rug]

choco,
i'm definitely going to be following this thread, because i've found myself in kind of the same boat lately. when i first started eating paleo over 2 years ago, i was most definitely low carb (less than 50g per day). i ate meat, fat, veggies, and very little fruit. over the course of about 4 months, i went from 180 to 165 and i was shredded. i felt great and looked awesome. then, my workouts started to suffer. i tend to workout very intensely 4-6 days per week. heavy weights. HIT training. boxing. mountain biking. etc. i didn't know what my deal was. i trudged on for about a year more. workouts suffered and eventually, i gained about 10lbs back, definitely all belly fat. my body was stressed. then i started reintroducing more carb sources. bananas, berries, sweet potatoes, spaghetti squash. i would typically have some fruit with my breakfast and maybe some sweet potatoes and squash with dinner. i felt great. stayed around 175. but my workouts were back to normal. then, about 8 months ago, i started cycling my carbs. monday-friday i was low carb. then saturday and sunday i was high carb/low fat. a bit of a re-feed. performance suffered. i felt bloated after the high carb days. i even gained a few lbs. then, about 3 months ago, i started really experimenting with carb timing and a different type of carb cycling. right now i alternate days of low carb (about 50grams) and high carb (about 200 grams). and i'll have a little carb in my breakfast. some banana/berries in a huge shake or with my bacon and eggs. then i'll be low carb for lunch or even IF, and then i work out in the afternoon. then i have the bulk of my carbs post workout with dinner. sweet potatoes, white rice, etc. my performance is great, and i've been actually growing muscle (chest/arm/thigh measurements all went up in the past 3 months) and losing fat (waist is shrinking a bit, tightened up the belt an notch, showing a solid 4 pack now. funny thing is, my actual weight is still hovering right around 175. oddly enough i was 178 this morning. so i think i found what works for me in terms of carb consumption. but it's definitely more of a slow and steady approach. since i tend to work out hard 4-6 days per week, eating high carb/low fat during the "hard" days would mean i ate that way most of the time. so it seems like doing it on alternating days is working better. for now. we'll see. give me 3-4 mor months and who knows, maybe my metabolism will be screwed up again. i really hope this is the answer though. or maybe it's not. maybe eating higher carb/lower fat all the time is good for someone as active as i am. i just don't know.

[justyouraveragecavemen]

I'm all ears, er, eyes Choco.

[ChocoTaco369]

choco,
i'm definitely going to be following this thread, because i've found myself in kind of the same boat lately. when i first started eating paleo over 2 years ago, i was most definitely low carb (less than 50g per day). i ate meat, fat, veggies, and very little fruit. over the course of about 4 months, i went from 180 to 165 and i was shredded. i felt great and looked awesome. then, my workouts started to suffer. i tend to workout very intensely 4-6 days per week. heavy weights. HIT training. boxing. mountain biking. etc. i didn't know what my deal was. i trudged on for about a year more. workouts suffered and eventually, i gained about 10lbs back, definitely all belly fat. my body was stressed. then i started reintroducing more carb sources. bananas, berries, sweet potatoes, spaghetti squash. i would typically have some fruit with my breakfast and maybe some sweet potatoes and squash with dinner. i felt great. stayed around 175. but my workouts were back to normal. then, about 8 months ago, i started cycling my carbs. monday-friday i was low carb. then saturday and sunday i was high carb/low fat. a bit of a re-feed. performance suffered. i felt bloated after the high carb days. i even gained a few lbs. then, about 3 months ago, i started really experimenting with carb timing and a different type of carb cycling. right now i alternate days of low carb (about 50grams) and high carb (about 200 grams). and i'll have a little carb in my breakfast. some banana/berries in a huge shake or with my bacon and eggs. then i'll be low carb for lunch or even IF, and then i work out in the afternoon. then i have the bulk of my carbs post workout with dinner. sweet potatoes, white rice, etc. my performance is great, and i've been actually growing muscle (chest/arm/thigh measurements all went up in the past 3 months) and losing fat (waist is shrinking a bit, tightened up the belt an notch, showing a solid 4 pack now. funny thing is, my actual weight is still hovering right around 175. oddly enough i was 178 this morning. so i think i found what works for me in terms of carb consumption. but it's definitely more of a slow and steady approach. since i tend to work out hard 4-6 days per week, eating high carb/low fat during the "hard" days would mean i ate that way most of the time. so it seems like doing it on alternating days is working better. for now. we'll see. give me 3-4 mor months and who knows, maybe my metabolism will be screwed up again. i really hope this is the answer though. or maybe it's not. maybe eating higher carb/lower fat all the time is good for someone as active as i am. i just don't know.

Oh God, this speaks to me SO WELL. Stress is a HUGE factor. HUGE! IT IS SO UNDERRATED AND UNDERRECOGNIZED!!!

That being said, I have to call you out on one thing: Your #1 problem is you're working out WAY too much. 4-6 days a week of intense exercise? HOLY SHIT! You should be lifting 3 times a week MAX for no more than 1 hour a session. Focus on the Big 6: squats, deadlifts, benchpress, chin-ups, pull-ups and calf raises. I throw in shoulder presses for good measure, so I do 7. I'll let you sprint ONCE a week for 15-20 minutes, and you're allowed to do 1 or 2 days of LOW LEVEL aerobics - walking or slow cycling - for 20-40 minutes. You're doing way too much and you can't recover. And every 6 weeks, you should take a whole week off where you do no more than walk or slow cycle.

[primalrob]

this looks fun. i'll follow along and see what happens. i've been stuck in the mid-teens bf% for a while now, and while i'm completely fine with that, since i think i'm pretty close to homeostasis, i've been curious about changing my body fat set point like Stephan Guyenet wrote about at whole health source.

[not on the rug]

Oh God, this speaks to me SO WELL. Stress is a HUGE factor. HUGE! IT IS SO UNDERRATED AND UNDERRECOGNIZED!!!

That being said, I have to call you out on one thing: Your #1 problem is you're working out WAY too much. 4-6 days a week of intense exercise? HOLY SHIT! You should be lifting 3 times a week MAX for no more than 1 hour a session. Focus on the Big 6: squats, deadlifts, benchpress, chin-ups, pull-ups and calf raises. I throw in shoulder presses for good measure, so I do 7. I'll let you sprint ONCE a week for 15-20 minutes, and you're allowed to do 1 or 2 days of LOW LEVEL aerobics - walking or slow cycling - for 20-40 minutes. You're doing way too much and you can't recover. And every 6 weeks, you should take a whole week off where you do no more than walk or slow cycle.

i hear what you're saying. let me break it down. for the low level stuff, i walk my dogs every day. 2.5 miles. no big deal. 3 days per week i do the big lifts. squats, deads, presses, pullups etc. then 1 day a week i do some sort of HIT circuit. that usually involves the sprints, the plyo pushups, rope climbing, tractor tire flipping, jumproping, etc. then, usually on saturdays i do a nice long mountain bike ride. pretty intense for a few hours. throw in a day or 2 of boxing drills and sparring (i work with a friend who is an amateur mma fighter) and that wraps it up. now that being said, things change from season to season. during the summer i cut back on the heavy lifts a little bit, and do more bike rides, the occasional 2.5 mile jog, and a little more of the outdoor circuit work. and in the winter it goes the other way: more indoor heavy lifting, less walking dogs, outdoor workouts, bike rides, jogs, etc. and i'm always good about taking time off. i'm not really new to this kind of stuff at all.

[ChocoTaco369]

Interesting. The full-length mirror in my bedroom is sort of funny-mirror style in the sense that it "compresses" you. You can't see yourself well in it at all, and the lighting in the room is terrible. My work's bathroom has a very good mirror with excellent lighting.

Well, I will admit I've been mildly starving myself for the past few months. My workout recovery has been terrible, my gains have totally stalled and I can't lose any fat. Well, fast forward to this weekend:

1.) Saturday night I was out drinking beer til 3am. I was absolutely trashed.
2.) Sunday I destroyed a BBQ. I ate a burger, a cheeseburger (bunless of course), 4 sausages, 3 plates of sliced watermelon and three large pieces of REAL cake. I haven't had actual cake in quite awhile.
3.) Monday I had ANOTHER BBQ. I ate a burger, a cheeseburger (bunless again), a few whole crabs, some chips and salsa, half an ear of fresh corn and I crushed half an entire watermelon by myself.

At this point, I weighed myself at 147 lbs.

On Tuesday and Wednesday through lunch, I did a PSTM. I ate nothing but super lean meat and lettuce for 48 hours. I worked a total of 25 hours, had brutal meetings and I didn't exercise a lick. I couldn't even go for a walk because I got home at 9pm and 7:30pm respectively. No way was I going to the gym or going for a walk in the dark. I dropped to 142 lbs - 5 lbs in 2 days. Clearly I dumped a ton of water starving myself. I felt tired, weak and deflated. Even with 5 lbs of water loss, I couldn't quite make out my stomach muscles.

Last night I ate that massive meal full of meat, fat and carbs pictured in the OP.

Today, I feel great. My back feels a lot better, my muscles feel pumped and I can see my 4 top abs even though I ate lots of calories and surely put on "weight". I think the big eating on the BBQ's and the big meal last night paired with a big calorie cycle had an interesting effect on my body. I'm really looking forward to this.

[dragonmamma]

Don't know where you live; have you ever noticed that hot/cold weather affects your body comp at all? I'm pretty tied into a yearly cycle: In fall when the temperature drops, I start craving sweet potatoes and more calories in general, and I gain a few pounds for the winter months. Then when the temps start rising in spring, I crave watermelon and strawberries and raw veggie salads and don't have as much of an appetite for meat, and I lose a few pounds. Could this be the missing link in your plan?

[not on the rug]

i'm in the same boat. i took a few days to "recover." as well. saturday bbq. over the course of the day i ate 4 burgers (no bun), 2 sausages ans 2 hot dogs (applegate farms). plus 2 plates of salad and some homemade chips too. not to mention about a dozen beers. sunday. more bbq. burgers, dogs, beer, etc... monday i didn't pig out quite so much. some steaks and grilled asparagus. bacon and eggs. baked sweet potatoes. tuesday was a normal day of eating. and i had actually taken off friday, saturda, sunda, monday, and tuesday from working out. my overall "weight" went up 3 lbs, and i couldn't see any abs at all but i felt rested and good. and as of this morning, the 4 pack is back. i will weigh myself tomorrow and see what the scale says. i really don't care what it says overall, i try to focus on how i look and feel, but i do weigh myself once a week to see if the number jives with what the mirror is telling me

[MightyAl]

I am in on this one.

I have been in a similar boat for the past few months. I have been extremely diligent about my diet for the past 2 months for certain. I cut back on carbs again to less then 50g/ day and have been watching my calories but the scale has not been moving one bit. My exercise has been slow easy runs of 30-40min a couple times a week and 1 HIIT session per week.

I am thinking about getting into heavy lifts as I have not gone that route yet in my journey and I am curious to see how I respond. I did do 12 weeks of BBS and saw some mixed improvements and would like to see what moving to free weights might net me working out twice a week.

Can't wait to see where this path takes you on your journey.