Please help, I need advice page 30

[billp]

Yeah, smoking is really addictive. I have smoked on and off. Two cigarettes are enough to make me crave it and lead to a five packet addiction - after which I stop myself by sheer will-power - I just expect it to hurt for a few days, then I am over it.

[Ann1217]

Don't smoke Ribbons, it's terrible for you! It will make you smell very bad! Smoking suppresses appetite, it doesn't stimulate it! That's why all the scrawny fashion models smoke. But then will be wrinkly and haggard when they're 50, so we will have the last laugh!

[billp]

Another idea Ribbons. I think it is really important for you to break your cycle now, of stress and under-eating and calories. I don't know where you are, but I have been in Melbourne at this time of the year (mid-winter) and it is so depressing - cold and wet. Is it like that where you are? I was thinking maybe you could go for a trip somewhere dryer and hotter, maybe with whichever ever of your parents you feel closest to (you definitely shouldn't go alone and I bet your father would take two weeks off if you explained and asked him). Cairns is lovely at this time of the year. I really do think your exams are a dead loss in your present state and you should get signed off sick from them as soon as possible. There is nothing more important than your health.

[billp]

Don't smoke Ribbons, it's terrible for you! It will make you smell very bad! Smoking suppresses appetite, it doesn't stimulate it! That's why all the scrawny fashion models smoke. But then will be wrinkly and haggard when they're 50, so we will have the last laugh!

It's not terrible, it is slightly bad. Starving is terrible. But yes, the risk of it suppressing her appetite further makes it probably a poor idea.

[Ribbons]

Don't smoke Ribbons, it's terrible for you! It will make you smell very bad! Smoking suppresses appetite, it doesn't stimulate it! That's why all the scrawny fashion models smoke. But then will be wrinkly and haggard when they're 50, so we will have the last laugh!

I don't smoke, I only did it a few times. I don't think it actually suppresses your appetite though, I think it's just a distraction from food.

Another idea Ribbons. I think it is really important for you to break your cycle now, of stress and under-eating and calories. I don't know where you are, but I have been in Melbourne at this time of the year (mid-winter) and it is so depressing - cold and wet. Is it like that where you are? I was thinking maybe you could go for a trip somewhere dryer and hotter, maybe with whichever ever of your parents you feel closest to (you definitely shouldn't go alone and I bet your father would take two weeks off if you explained and asked him). Cairns is lovely at this time of the year. I really do think your exams are a dead loss in your present state and you should get signed off sick from them as soon as possible. There is nothing more important than your health.

Yeah it's always cold and wet but I can't just randomly go on a holiday during school time. Seriously, I'm not about to die or anything. I'm sure I can cope with exams if I push myself enough.

[billp]

I know but if I put on weight then that's a big discouragement from eating more.

It doesn't matter about your weight at the moment, unless it is too low. What matters is your mental health and eating more

I know but it feels like it's turning into fat because food makes your stomach look bigger and you feel heavier.

That's called dysmorphophobia. You know its not true so it doesn't matter what you feel.

Haha like a week ago I was imagining moving into my own house and not keeping any food in it and that seemed like the ideal situation to be in because no one could make me eat and I wouldn't be able to binge. It didn't even occur to me then that I could die from that.

I know. That is why it is so important that you be with your family and share your feelings with them, because they need to tell you too eat, however unpleasant that may be. You would die on your own in your present state, I think rather quickly.

No, I just don't think I need immediate help. If I was dying I'd happily drop out of school.

500-700 calories a day is dying. Dropping out of school is only an option, but an important one I think. The really urgent one is getting to the doctor.

It's not the same. I can think clearly enough to know whether I'm dying or not (and I'm definitely not!) And cancer can't get better on its own or just by changing your diet.

From where you are now it has a pretty similar death rate.

Does "mental degeneration" mean that I'm losing my ability to think rationally? Is that why I keep changing my mind?

YES

I can't weigh myself now because I feel very fat and I've probably put on weight so I'll do it in a couple of days. But I can assure you that I'm still fat.

How you feel doesn't have anything to do with standing on the scales. You just stand on them and look. You are the weight you are. Knowing it would be useful to you and wouldn't alter your weight. Would only take a moment.

That's why I'm not (purposely) doing it anymore

Good. It is really important that you avoid counting or measuring food. It is directly connected to what is wrong with you. You need to eat until you are physically full.

Haha well done for inventing it
You could write a book or something.

I think so too! I just started a draft on my blog but it is only a few lines long. It takes quite a lot of work to flesh something out into a whole book. But i definitely think I should write one. Everyone should these days if they want to be taken seriously. Lulu means you can publish anything you like and Amazon will stock it, printing off one copy every time someone buys one.

That seem a bit excessive... Why two weeks?

It is based on about how long Gadsie took once he started eating like mad. He remained in a highly anxious anorexic state for some time after, then suddenly he was all "I Feel Great!". How long it will take you I just don't know.

I eat under 10g of fructose a day because apparently that's the "safe" limit.

Eh? I never heard of any safe limit for fructose. You can eat as much fruit as you like. You aren't allergic to it, at least as far as I know.

How could sugar possibly be good for me? I'd just get addicted to it again.

It is good for you. YOu are suffering form acute Anorexia Nervosa. You are going to need to eat more, and initially you will need a lot of sugar because of the amount of muscle and bodily repair you will need to do after sucha long period of starvation. If you eat primal/paleo type foods as well you will be able to tell when you no longer need it as you will stop craving it. I recommend Haagen Dazs Vanilla Icecream as a natural and clean source of sugar and cream with no HFCS or veg oil.

I think your anorexic recovery is going to involve lots of carbs

Why??

Because you are drastically short on all nutrition and they are very easy to digest. Rice with butter, meat and veg would be ideal for you. It will take a few meals before your stomach is used to routinely having food again.

I can't tell if you're serious or you're just trying to scare me.

That was a serious point. And you should be scared. I have read your old post and I see a marked decline. You appear to have an increasing number of cognitive issues which are getting worse. End-stage alcoholics get something similar, as do terminal cancer patients and the very old. It is a really bad sign.

They said it at the start of the year to everyone. You can't postpone exams because it gives you an unfair advantage. You could easily find the exams online.

They don't want people to do that, but that doesn't mean that you really can't. You would be surprised at how flexible these things are in reality. People make adjustments - making adjustments is part of being adult. I went though a number of very unpleasant civil court cases recently, and I was surprised how flexible the underlying system was, whatever the rules were meant to say. You have rock-solid medical grounds for special treatment.

I don't want to go but I will if I need to. And there's not much anyone could do for me in less than a week so I may as well go after exams.

Just go now, or first thing tomorrow morning (it being pretty late now). It is really important.

[fiercehunter]

Well fwiw a big turn in the road for me has happened through exploring the Ray Peat approach to paleo. It's higher carb and it's as dogmatic as paleo that "I must eat vegetables and meat to be healthy". I'm eating more fruit and drinking milk for the first time in decades, am feeling much better and am finally happy.

Maybe you need a fresh perspective:
Ray Peat Eating Guidelines : Semi Low-Carb Plans Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

[billp]

Yeah it's always cold and wet but I can't just randomly go on a holiday during school time. Seriously, I'm not about to die or anything. I'm sure I can cope with exams if I push myself enough.

Yes, you are probably not about to die (although you could have a heart attack, that happens to anorexics) but you are likely to die if you carry on doing what you are doing, which you give every indication of being determined to do. The trouble is that the time before you get so thin they strap you to a hospital bed, something probably two or three months away yet, does terrible and often permanent damage to your body and health, setting the stage for much worse health in later life, including osteoporosis, poor fertility, early menopause, bad teeth, heart disease, liver and kidney damage and on-going mental health problems. It is a really bad idea to let things get so far that they have to force feed you (where you are heading) and even then, in many cases force-feeding comes too late and the patient dies.

Pushing yourself, in your currently starved state, will not do you the blindest bit of good, as the cognitive side effects will prevent you from being able to concentrate sufficiently or remembering what you need to know in the exam. Frankly there is no loss to you and everything to be gained in getting signed off sick from them. If I was your doctor I wouldn't hesitate to immediately sign you off sick for two months.

Climate makes a big difference to mental health problems. I think you would find a hot dry climate very beneficial. I definitely think your condition is serious enough to merit it. I don't think it is a coincidence that you got sucked into this in the middle of winter. Given the seriousness of your situation, as long as your parents are aware of it I think there is every reason to think they would be willing to take you away, especially as it is really important you break the cycle. Renting a cheap house for a few weeks in Cairns or wherever (Darwin? The Mediterranean? Bali? Toowoomba even?) is not cripplingly expensive if you keep costs down. You really need a change of scene.

[amberlee]

billip, seriously, have you wondered why members back off commenting, have you thought about the effect of contributing to the microanalysis or response to the attention seeking?

Ribbons, you are clearly articulate and presumably smart and not about to expire

billip, are you ribbons and gadsie? are are you fuelling the drama to advance your own 'research"

seriously, ribbons, get off the forum if you exist and get a ne preoccupation than seeking attention here...as yiu say, you are not about to starve and clearly are not interested in primal as opposed to the attention

billip...creepy

[billp]

Fair enough, amberlee. Am quite tired today so am not at my most clear-headed myself. Point taken.