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  1. #1
    not on the rug's Avatar
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    hypothyroidism/hashimotos?

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    question about tsh and t4 levels.. this is for a friend. 30 something year old female. active, clean paleo diet, gluten once a month, limited dairy. recently got bloodwork results and the doctor was concerned. her TSH was 5.550 and her T4 was 1.03. her doctor wanted to put her on synthroid, 25mcg. but she asked me first, because "I'm in to the natural stuff." i understand that iodine can be helpful (kelp, pink salt, etc) but that it can iodine can be a problem for people with hashimotos. (although some people beg to differ). i also understand that selenium plays a role in this proces. so the question is this: should she add some pink salt and kelp and maybe some brazil nuts to her diet and then get re-tested? is this even a concern because her T4 levels are within normal range. i really don't know too much about this stuff, so i told her i would ask online and see what i can dig up.

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    She needs more blood work done. T3, rT3 and TPO are big factors in this equation. I am a nutritionist and have been battling this personally for over a year now. If her T3 is high, her liver is not converting T3 to T4, thus indicating a liver cleanse would be most beneficial. I would tell her the first this she needs to do is determine if it's really Hashimoto's. If so, gluten and dairy must be completely eliminated, along with most grains. And, by eliminated, I mean completely eliminated! It will not do her any good whatsoever to have it here and there. For people with gluten insensitivity, which is most hashimoto patients, asking them if they eat gluten with a response of "I think so, maybe occasionally", is like asking is you're pregnant - it's either yes or no, NOTHING in between! One bite of gluten will set you back 6 months with the inflammatory response in your body.

    Foods with high levels of lectins must be avoided, this would be nightshades mostly. Cleanse the liver with dandelion root and milk thistle. Stay away from iodine. Have CRP (C Reactive Protein) measured for inflammation levels. If high, eliminate peanuts and almonds, among other inflammatory foods.

    Too much to cover here. But that's enough to get you started. Good luck!

  3. #3
    otzi's Avatar
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    She needs to request a test for these:
    - Thyroid Antibodies (Called Thyroid pero AB, or Thyroid AB prof)
    - FT3 (free T3)
    - RT3 (reverse T3)

    The thyroid AB will tell if she has hashimoto's or an AI disease.
    The FT3 will tell how well the body is converting T4 to T3.
    The RT3 will tell how well the body is using the T3.

    There is also a T3 uptake test, if she needs further testing.

    I think giving Synthroid to her is useless. Just from the tests she had, it shows her thyroid is making T4, Synthroid is just synthetic T4. If her T3 is low, it means she is not converting the T4 to T3 and would be better on Cytomel (synthetic T3) or Armour (natural dessicated pig thyroid that contains T3 and T4).

    If she has high antibodies, she needs to get it resolved fast, because that is a serious problem.

    I would recommend eating 3-4 brazil nuts and as much seafood as she can handle. Brazil nuts for selenium and seafood for selenium and iodine. Also look into iodine supplementing, kelp pills as a minimum--shoot for 500mcg iodione/day. Read the big iodine thread for more info.

    Also be aware that thyroid hormones can act seasonally, naturally decreasing in late winter/spring and peaking again in late summer early fall. This is due to sunlight, vit D status, warmth, and activity levels.

    If all tests come back in range, I would be very hesistant to start on Synthroid or anything while T3 and T4 are within the reference range, if she isn't having any hypothyroid symptoms.

  4. #4
    Ingvildr's Avatar
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    I am hashimotos and have been since shortly after my son was born 5 years ago. I take the synthroid because I feel like death warmed over without it. I have not noticed any real difference in my levels with different nutritional tactics. Hashimotos causes a gradual physical destruction of the thyroid hormone producing cells. Getting inflammation down may help slow or stop the progression. I'm not sure if the body can compensate for what was destroyed. As for levels, they are currently reworking what is 'normal' and what one doc says is normal another says is too high. I feel good when my TSH is around 1.2. 5.55 is high but not severe. I take 75mcg of Synthroid and it does make a world of difference in how I feel. The longer you go out of balance on thyroid hormones, the more healing that needs to happen after you get enough hormone.

    I'm not saying not to try nutritional tactics, but they may or may not work or they may only partially work. 25mcg is the smallest dose of Synthroid they make and it takes about 6 weeks for it to build up to level. It is a slow process to get the thyroid hormones balanced. She might want to check to see how many goitergenic foods she is eating and cut down on them. Mostly Brassicas such as broccoli and cabbage. My endo advised against supplementing iodine, but eating iodine rich foods was fine. One side effect of too low of thyroid hormone is that cholesterol skyrockets, so if she has been checked recently and it was outrageous she should ignore it until the thyroid is balanced. Usually it will take care of itself when the thyroid hormones are balanced. One side effect for me of taking synthroid is that I have regular menstrual cycles for the first time in my life and I'm 42 years old.

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    Grizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    question about tsh and t4 levels.. this is for a friend. 30 something year old female. active, clean paleo diet, gluten once a month, limited dairy. recently got bloodwork results and the doctor was concerned. her TSH was 5.550 and her T4 was 1.03. her doctor wanted to put her on synthroid, 25mcg. but she asked me first, because "I'm in to the natural stuff." i understand that iodine can be helpful (kelp, pink salt, etc) but that it can iodine can be a problem for people with hashimotos. (although some people beg to differ). i also understand that selenium plays a role in this proces. so the question is this: should she add some pink salt and kelp and maybe some brazil nuts to her diet and then get re-tested? is this even a concern because her T4 levels are within normal range. i really don't know too much about this stuff, so i told her i would ask online and see what i can dig up.
    1) MOST IMPORTANT Refer this website to her
    She can read everything she needs here:
    Site Map | Stop The Thyroid Madness

    2) Next ask her to join this free group which has a VERY experienced doctor leading the group:
    iodine : Iodine

    3) She needs to take Lugols iodine with required supplements per this document
    written by the above doctor. She will get the latest version free when she joins the group:
    http://home.comcast.net/~jocy1/junk/...h%20Iodine.pdf
    Ask her to read pgs 8-10

    She got herself into this mess because of the nationwide Iodine Deficiency Epidemic that is making 90% of American women sick with a Pandoras Box of problems, most notably thyroid problems, Fibrocystic Breasts, PCOS, Endometriosis, brain fog, depression, painful cycles, migraines and more. The epidemic is also striking at men with Erectile Dysfunction, Low Testosterone, and swelling Prostate (BPH, Prostitus).

    We have documented all the doctors reports and research in this "Iodine References" Report and please send it to everyone you know, friends & family, Facebook & Twitter:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

    For more see our iodine group:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread45205.html

    Grizz

  6. #6
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    I have been hypothyroid for about 17 years. My first test it was off the charts. Stupidly I had Chronic Lyme, Crohn's, asthma, oh tons of other stuff and never really did the homework like I am now on what this means and what my options are, I just took the synthroid and went on with life. There's a lot to read and various opinions out there. For some iodine seems to work. For others it seems to trigger a meltdown. Here is a link to a comprehensive collection of articles Chris Kresser wrote about the thyroid a couple years ago - Thyroid Disorders . Chris is a researcher (and consults with patients as a practitioner of integrated medicine) and does a great job of distilling a lot of research and analysis in his blogs. He's not taking new patients and I'm not recommending him for that (I'm not a patient) but he does have a lot of great information.

    Although his conclusions may seem a little biased to those who disagree, he shows where the data is coming from and explains why he feels the way he does and that gives me a clearer picture to decide for myself. He does not rant and I really enjoy his posts. He does agree that yes Dr. Abraham and Dr. Brownstein have successfully treated some people's hypothyroid using iodine, but he's very cautious about the damage it can do to others and believes, like Dr. Kharrazian, that with others it's complete avoidance of iodine that is necessary. There are really many issues affecting the thyroid and so many different treatments. Some can help themselves naturally, some can heal with supplements, and some will always need to take thyroid medication.

    But if your friend reads all the articles including the comments where people argue with him, then she'll at least be much more informed and will be able to request the proper tests and feel a little more competent working with her Dr. to find a good treatment plan. After 17 years (and new insurance) I am finally going to an endochrinologist with my list of questions and will ask for the complete tests and hopefully address the issue with more than a synthroid pill. Perhaps your friend should consider asking for a referral to an endochrinologist and have them perform the more detailed tests and discuss treatment options instead of her regular GP. Just a thought.

    Good luck to her.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
    Grizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerryK View Post
    I have been hypothyroid for about 17 years. My first test it was off the charts. Stupidly I had Chronic Lyme, Crohn's, asthma, oh tons of other stuff and never really did the homework like I am now on what this means and what my options are, I just took the synthroid and went on with life. There's a lot to read and various opinions out there. For some iodine seems to work. For others it seems to trigger a meltdown. Here is a link to a comprehensive collection of articles Chris Kresser wrote about the thyroid a couple years ago - Thyroid Disorders . Chris is a researcher (and consults with patients as a practitioner of integrated medicine) and does a great job of distilling a lot of research and analysis in his blogs. He's not taking new patients and I'm not recommending him for that (I'm not a patient) but he does have a lot of great information.

    Although his conclusions may seem a little biased to those who disagree, he shows where the data is coming from and explains why he feels the way he does and that gives me a clearer picture to decide for myself. He does not rant and I really enjoy his posts. He does agree that yes Dr. Abraham and Dr. Brownstein have successfully treated some people's hypothyroid using iodine, but he's very cautious about the damage it can do to others and believes, like Dr. Kharrazian, that with others it's complete avoidance of iodine that is necessary. There are really many issues affecting the thyroid and so many different treatments. Some can help themselves naturally, some can heal with supplements, and some will always need to take thyroid medication.

    But if your friend reads all the articles including the comments where people argue with him, then she'll at least be much more informed and will be able to request the proper tests and feel a little more competent working with her Dr. to find a good treatment plan. After 17 years (and new insurance) I am finally going to an endochrinologist with my list of questions and will ask for the complete tests and hopefully address the issue with more than a synthroid pill. Perhaps your friend should consider asking for a referral to an endochrinologist and have them perform the more detailed tests and discuss treatment options instead of her regular GP. Just a thought.

    Good luck to her.

    Hope this helps.
    I'm sorry to say that your post is NOT helpful, and Mr. Kesser is dead wrong by telling people not to take iodine. People get into big trouble taking iodine because:
    1) They did not take the required supplements to go with it.
    If you decide to supplement with iodine, or if you want to improve your thyroid health, you must take the REQUIRED supplements:
    - - tsp Natural Celtic Salt
    - - 200 mcg selenium (L-selenomethionine preferred) - required to protect the thyroid
    - - 400 mcg Magnesium - Glycinate preferred
    - - 2,000mg Vitamin C - Ester-C preferred
    - - ATP Cofactors - contains B2 & B3 in the correct ratio
    All of the above supplements are required to help the thyroid recover function and to help the body detox from the buildup of Halogen chemicals in our lifetime. Halogen chemicals, Bromides, Fluorides & Chlorine have displaced what little iodine we have in our cells.
    2) People take too much iodine too soon and get VERY SICK from the Halogen chemicals that come pouring out of our cells. Iodine detoxes our body from the nasty chemicals filling our cells. It is necessary to start with 1/2mg daily and titrate slowly over a 6 month period to avoid detox illness. The people (doctors included) get sick on toxins and blame the iodine. Or they get sick from not taking the required supplements and blame it on iodine.
    3) Iodine is absolutely essential for female organ health, thyroid health and male reproductive health.
    Sorry, but you need to study the doctor reports in this file and stop posting LIES about iodine:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references
    You also need to study this website:
    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/site-map/
    and this document:
    http://home.comcast.net/~jocy1/junk/...h%20Iodine.pdf

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 05-24-2012 at 01:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    some good info.
    I'm too stubborn to give up so I keep on trying.

    You're never going to get to the top of the stairs if you don't walk up them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    I'm sorry to say that your post is NOT helpful, and Mr. Kesser is dead wrong by telling people not to take iodine [SNIP]
    Grizz
    Grizz - I have read all the interesting posts, sites, and links you've kindly supplied. Perhaps your info is all the OP's friend needs. All I have done is provide a link that I found helpful to me. I personally am interested in iodine and will be testing myself for deficiency and perhaps follow the protocol myself with someone there to help me (I hope). But I find a lot of Chris's articles interesting, informative, and helpful. Perhaps she will too and STILL explore iodine.

    Chris acknowledged iodine successes and there were quite a few compelling arguers pro-iodine in the comments which is why I mentioned they should be read. I do not necessarily agree with everything Chris says. I merely, as you, offered some info I found helpful.

    BTW, I am typing on a cell and your reply was not posted when I started my own reply... I had not seen it and was not replying to you, rather to the OP.

    Thank you again for this same info you gave me in another thread - it's an amazing amount of work and organization and I found it fascinating and food for thought. This forum, however, gets bogged down in absolutes sometimes which is NOT the way our bodies work. Perhaps 99% of everyone with thyroid issues can be cured by iodine (I don't claim that, but just suppose) and suppose just 1% can be harmed by it or do not need it. Let's offer all sides & opinions and let everyone decide the next step themselves. Knowledge is power. At the very least, he explains so much more about the thyroid, different issues, the tests, etc.

    I tried to be respectful in my prior post. I always will. And that is kind of nervy of you saying I am posting lies about iodine. Not right.
    Last edited by KerryK; 05-24-2012 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Added the final sentence

  10. #10
    Grizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerryK View Post
    Grizz - I have read all the interesting posts, sites, and links you've kindly supplied. Perhaps your info is all the OP's friend needs. All I have done is provide a link that I found helpful to me. I personally am interested in iodine and will be testing myself for deficiency and perhaps follow the protocol myself with someone there to help me (I hope). But I find a lot of Chris's articles interesting, informative, and helpful. Perhaps she will too and STILL explore iodine.

    Chris acknowledged iodine successes and there were quite a few compelling arguers pro-iodine in the comments which is why I mentioned they should be read. I do not necessarily agree with everything Chris says. I merely, as you, offered some info I found helpful.

    BTW, I am typing on a cell and your reply was not posted when I started my own reply... I had not seen it and was not replying to you, rather to the OP.

    Thank you again for this same info you gave me in another thread - it's an amazing amount of work and organization and I found it fascinating and food for thought. This forum, however, gets bogged down in absolutes sometimes which is NOT the way our bodies work. Perhaps 99% of everyone with thyroid issues can be cured by iodine (I don't claim that, but just suppose) and suppose just 1% can be harmed by it or do not need it. Let's offer all sides & opinions and let everyone decide the next step themselves. Knowledge is power. At the very least, he explains so much more about the thyroid, different issues, the tests, etc.

    I tried to be respectful in my prior post. I always will. And that is kind of nervy of you saying I am posting lies about iodine. Not right.
    Kerry,

    No one is harmed by taking iodine, unless they are allergic to it. (extremely rare) Iodine is ESSENTIAL for human health and people are severely harmed by not taking iodine. Nasties such as Fibrocystic Breasts, PCOS, Endometriosis, Thyroid Problems, Prostate Problems including the resulting cancers if these problems last long enough. ALL ARE REVERSIBLE WHEN TAKING ENOUGH IODINE !

    Iodine may or may not restore your thyroid to full function. If you have been severely iodine deficient for long enough, your thyroid could be permanently damaged, and you could require thyroid meds for life. Fortunately, for most people, iodine with REQUIRED supplements slowly returns the thyroid to good health, and you will find the need to reduce your thyroid meds over time. When symptoms of hyperthyroid occur, reduce your meds.

    Both ioDINE and ioDIDE are required for optimal health, and to prevent fibrocystic breasts, PCOS, Endometriosis, prostate problems and hormonal imbalances.
    * Our body requires both iodine AND iodide (lugols iodine & iodoral capsules recommended)
    - - - Iodine is used by the prostate + Stomach
    - - - Iodide (SSKI) is used by the thyroid + skin + Salivary
    - - - kidneys, spleen, liver, blood, breasts & intestines can use either form

    This forum sometimes gets bogged down in BAD information. There is a great deal of misinformation and gross lies about iodine on the internet. You must be very careful who you believe and who you follow.

    You must ask yourself WHY is there such a severe nationwide deficiency in iodine that 90% of women are suffering with Fibrocystic Breasts. ANSWER: We live in a sea of toxic halogen chemicals that displace iodine from every cell in our body. These toxins are in our bread, water, food, cosmetics, drugs, soda pop, beer. We need to take 50mg daily of iodine to offset all of these chemicals. What are these toxins? Bromide, (in breads & foods) Fluoride (toothpaste & water), Chlorine (in water & drugs) If it weren't for this sea of toxins bombarding us every day, we could get by on 12mg or less of iodine daily.
    http://www.freegrab.net/Iodine%20update.htm#section18

    Google Dr. Brownstein for more, or read the doctors reports in Iodine References for more:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

    Study this cover page. This says it all:
    iodine : Iodine

    Just imagine all the terror that women with fibrocystic breast disease face when contemplating Mammography, all of this terror and expense so needless since iodine cures all symptoms.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 05-24-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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