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  1. #291
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man is Truth View Post
    Saoirse, it is only in the post-modern world that people can afford to look at only looks as valuable in women; read some mario puzo (wrote the godfather but a lot of other awesome shit). You get a lot of descriptions of wives that consist of praise from their husbands because they can cook and clean and slaughter animals and manage a family on a poverty budget and grow things well; these were common contributions to the peasant household that women always made and were always prized except among the rich.


    and I think wilton is onto something when he says that men are more "cold and logical." Isn't it like, Dr, Phil, Mars/venus cliche even that women talk emotionally and vent with no expectation of problem-solving, while men just inject solutions? I know this constantly happens to me and my wife, and when her friends come over, it's even worse! But then aren't there studies that say that the male brain hears women's voice like music? As in the language parts of their brains are not as engaged, and they are hearing tones and shit? maybe you are all talking sense, but we just think, "aww the womenfolk are chattering like birds- how sweet."
    Cold and logical is crucial on a hunt or in a fight. It's not so crucial when gathering vegetables or raising kids.

    Plenty of overlap certainly within gene pools and lifestyle habits. Still, all my experiences have been that men are driven by more logical impulses, and women are still driven but sometimes muddier in their logic.

    This is such pseudo-science... Although, it's still interesting to talk about.

  2. #292
    canio6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    it's a cliche, doesn't make it true or mean that it's hormonally motivated. when women are cold and logical, we don't call it a good thing, we call it frigid.
    It is a sterotype and like many stereotypes is based on fact. Women on this forum have said as much, my wife has said as much, many books and 'experts' have said as much. Does that make it 100% true for all women/men. No, but it is true for a large portion of said populations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    i don't know where this fits into the conversation, but it's interesting. it certainly helps to explain why i have to be a bitch* to get my husband to listen to me.

    *bitch here is a relative term.
    This I am calling bs on. Men hear women's voices like music? WTF? Womenfolk are chattering like birds? Please. If you respect someone you listen. If you don't you don't. Many women I ignore as they do not have shit to say. I do the same to men. It is about the person and the subject not the pitch/timbre of their voice. I am going to presume your husband listens when you sound like a b' because he can tell by your tone you are serious so he focuses. The fact he does not listen other times shows to me that he does not take you seriously and that shows a lack of respect.

  3. #293
    Saoirse's Avatar
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    Because when you reach an equilibrium of food availability and population, you try to keep it in the wild. If you don't, bad stuff happens. If this happens in our society, we just plow a little more land, overfish a little more, and make our slaves work a little longer.
    right, but we don't have nearly the same infant mortality rates they did. in our society, most babies survive past infancy. in HG groups, generally one died for every one that was alive. menarche occurred at a later age, and fertility was highly dependent on food availability, which might change sharply from year to year. so what you have is a nomadic people, with women giving birth to maybe 6-10 babies in their lifespan and keeping 1/2-2/3 of that number. when groups became too big, they split and went their separate ways to other food sources.

    Plus, I mentioned the Mt. Toba explosion about 70,000 years ago. This could have altered our evolutionary path and selected for those which re-populated areas the fastest.
    true. that's an interesting hypothesis to explore.

  4. #294
    canio6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man is Truth View Post
    I am not saying we disrespectfully do not listen, but that when we do listen, the parts of our brain that are engaged by music are the ones with the most electrical activity. That is not my choice. Certainly, it is effective and important, because most of what my wife says is actually bullshit, and she is trying to communicate something else entirely very often, through things like her tone. It is why I can hear her say a word or two and know what she is actually getting at
    Hmmm...well, as far as the brain goes, I have no evidence to dispute the idea. I just am not sure how (based on your next post) your wife is communicating more efficiently if she is saying one thing and communicating something else through tone etc. I'm just lucky to have married a wife that doesn't want to talk about bullshit all day long so perhaps YMMV.

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Cold and logical is crucial on a hunt or in a fight. It's not so crucial when gathering vegetables or raising kids.
    really? you have no clue what's required raising kids. i know that us moms get this nice, soft, loving reputation. but some of the best moms i know have the capability to be cold an logical. it's necessary to form a deep, loving attachment with your kids, but it's also necessary to say no to them when their entire little beings are wrapped up in you saying "yes." it takes a lot of stepping back and being cold to make that work. it was also common for women to hunt with men and hunt small game on their own. and i think women faced almost as many physical altercations as men did, i see no evidence to the contrary.


    Plenty of overlap certainly within gene pools and lifestyle habits. Still, all my experiences have been that men are driven by more logical impulses, and women are still driven but sometimes muddier in their logic.
    is it possible that they typical "women's logic" is just something that you, as a man, don't understand? it's not that it's muddier, but different?

    This is such pseudo-science...
    thank you for pointing that out.

  6. #296
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man is Truth View Post
    I agree with your experience, and mine is similar, but, how much of our experience is a result of the fact that girls grow up envisioning themselves as spoiled princesses thanks to their first imagination projections being entirely created by Disney?

    In primal times, gathering vegetables and raising kids is a stressful scenario- you have to worry about predators and enemy tribesmen and disease symptoms and you have to analyze all the cues and changes in your environment always. Definitely men needed to develop some kind of adaptation to be effective violence-bands, but I think this means that men are more conceptual if anything- ideas like loyalty appeal to them, where women reduce it to, "Can I eat this loyalty?"
    I agree with that. I think those are just different brands of logic. Women can be just as logical as men, but maybe their logic is different. I was more refering to men requiring and owning greater "heat of the moment" ability due to having many more "heat of the moment" encounters. When your brain is shaped by events like this, you make faster decisions. You use logic quickly. You take pressure. You communicate in SIMPLE terms and sometimes even purely signals (Side track: I read somewhere recently about how dogs and humans have adapted together for a long time. Dogs and human babies are both innately able to follow the direction that a human points their eyes in. The large white part of the eye is very expressive and allows this extra communication. However, the downside is the large whites of the eye are easier for predators to see). Women...stereotyping again, but they take more time to make decisions. They can be just as logical too, but to what end? Maybe their unique goals make their logic a little different compared to men.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 05-31-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  7. #297
    Saoirse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    It is a sterotype and like many stereotypes is based on fact. Women on this forum have said as much, my wife has said as much, many books and 'experts' have said as much. Does that make it 100% true for all women/men. No, but it is true for a large portion of said populations.
    i agree with the observation that most women are like this. i disagree with the assumption that it's somehow biologically-based or hormonally-driven. i think it's another neolithic cultural trait.


    This I am calling bs on. Men hear women's voices like music? WTF? Womenfolk are chattering like birds? Please. If you respect someone you listen. If you don't you don't. Many women I ignore as they do not have shit to say. I do the same to men. It is about the person and the subject not the pitch/timbre of their voice. I am going to presume your husband listens when you sound like a b' because he can tell by your tone you are serious so he focuses. The fact he does not listen other times shows to me that he does not take you seriously and that shows a lack of respect.
    lol. from my husband, i don't think it's disrespect, but something else entirely out of the scope of this conversation. i generally don't talk BS with my husband, if i speak it means that i'm serious. if i start to get a tone in my voice, it means i'm pretty pissed, and if i stop asking him to do it, it means that i've already done it myself and he's going to have to deal with whatever consequences arise (i haven't made dinner because i was busy doing what i had asked him to do, or the trash isn't being collected this week, or whatever) and i don't really want to be around him for the rest of the night. we've lived together for 10 years, if he doesn't get that simple bit then he's a dunce.

  8. #298
    Gay Panda's Avatar
    Gay Panda is offline Senior Member
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    Oh, WHY can't a woman be more like a man?

    * runs to see if Netflix streaming offers My Fair Lady *

  9. #299
    canio6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man is Truth View Post
    if she doesn't talk about bullshit, how do you assess her emotional state and its relationships to her surroundings? I promise you that she is not telling you with words, because I think that women do not know how to verbalize most of their sentiment, as it seems to be to be overwhelming and contradictory. I dont think I know many men who say, "I feel like...." and then an opinion, but all of the girls I know say this when they are talking about memories of events, or of their impressions. The men I know say, "I think..." or "It seemed to me like..."
    Luckily my wife is very manlike (for a lack of a better term) in her thinking/interactions. She is very logical, to the point, and I do not think I have ever heard her say "I feel..." It is a very refreshing change after my first wife who was so illogical/emotional I wanted to beat her to death some days. My wife has indications of a hormonal imbalance but does not want to get it treated because she does not 'want to start acting like a chick. You know all emotional and illogical and stuff' (not an exact quote but close paraphrase). So yes, I think I married an anomoly.

  10. #300
    canio6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    i agree with the observation that most women are like this. i disagree with the assumption that it's somehow biologically-based or hormonally-driven. i think it's another neolithic cultural trait.
    Then it is learned behavior and can be changed. As I do not think women are stupid (or any more so than men) they should know this and seek to change it. As they do not I can only assume they like being this way and this makes me not take them seriously.

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