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  1. #841
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    I'm not going to bother with a picture of tonight's dinner because it looked an awful lot like last night's shrimp salads. I made twice as many shrimp as we really needed and it was good enough to eat two nights running.

  2. #842
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    Hi PB. I don't usually have a problem with coconut oil/cream - but something in the last day or so has given me spasms and bloating. It could be that I had some coconut custard, but I also had an avocado (inspired by your journal, lol) and have been pretty miserable for the last 24 hours. Dammit!! I haven't had that much avo in one hit for years, and it's a high fodmap food, so it's the likely culprit. Anyway, it'll pass soon and I'll test to see what it was.

    Ketones went up yesterday from 0.3 before breakfast to 0.5mmol/L at 9pm. That's excellent - increasing over a day that I ate plenty. Weight is down, too. I bought the Phinney book, which is really helpful. I thought I'd struggle through the first week, but have totally rocked it .
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Journalling here

    "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path" - Morpheus

  3. #843
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    I didn't know avocados were a fodmap culprit. Sorry for all the tempting guac talk. I hope your tummy forgives you soon.

    That is awesome that you are rocking those ketones. I really think that the state of ketosis is very conducive to healing. I think if you could stay with it for a while you could let your body do some of the healing that it knows how to do all by itself. Sometimes we just get in our own way.

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I didn't know avocados were a fodmap culprit. Sorry for all the tempting guac talk. I hope your tummy forgives you soon.

    That is awesome that you are rocking those ketones. I really think that the state of ketosis is very conducive to healing. I think if you could stay with it for a while you could let your body do some of the healing that it knows how to do all by itself. Sometimes we just get in our own way.
    The past several day I've been IFing & eating what I guess is 60% fat, 30% protein, 10% carb, just eyeballing it. About the only veggies I've been eating are the sauerkraut & kimchi in large(r) portions. Plus some water kefir & coconut yogurt. Been laying low on dairy, trying to get my fats from fish, seafood & coconut. So I'm on board seeking ketosis! Will keep it up for 2 weeks min, maybe 3 depending on how I feel. I did get a little airy headed yesterday, & instead of feeling all full & satisfied, the lesser fibre is making me hungrier (than normal, lol). I find I'm eating 4-5 times a day now. I am IFing more though.

    I am actually doing small amount of fruit in a whey smoothie on this ketosis WOE for the 1st time ever as I've always done a Adkins style ketosis ie no fruit for a week or 2. But am doing this small amt of fruit,only immediately after early morning lifting & swimming, with which I'm doing more weights, more laps & faster & feeling great afterwards. Then whenever I burn/use that up, I have a normal breakfast or another smoothie w/ 3 eggs, more whey, coconut yogurt or kefir, loads of coconut oil & coconut flakes + some spices & him sea salt. I have red palm oil in my pantry, but am just using the coconut & a wee bit of butter for my added fats. I'm off nuts & dairy, for the next several weeks...

    The maternal unit is acting out like a child again, throwing some tantrums skipping lifting weights 2 days in a row, but I have experience w/ my son doing the same(the tantrums), but I can't put her in a quiet corner for a time out or put her in a crib for a quiet nap, haha. But she did weigh in this morning @ 147, so that's 20 lb loss in just over 30 days since we rebooted her primal journey & 3 lbs off from the 150 lbs that she had been stuck at for a while. Her SW was 167 in early July, when she was 4-5 lbs from crossing into "obese" on her doctor's chart. Her GW is 125, which is what she weighed in her early/mid-50s. She's about 1/2 way there, but I tell her the last 10 lbs may be the real challenge. We'll see if we can't hack her there @ the end, if she's motivated more by then...

    She's 75 & hypothyroid w/ 12+ years on synthroid, off her statins since May, have her BP med, toporol, down to 3/4 tab & her BP is lower now than before on a full pill for years & w/ her former CW diet & (non)exercise. After I/we get her off BP med entirely(another 20-30 days?), we'll next wean her off the heart medicine. Then it's only her incontenence med & synthroid & she'd be drug free for the 1st time in over 20 years. Its the goal, we'll see if it can be reached...
    Last edited by Betorq; 08-18-2012 at 08:21 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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  5. #845
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    Ya know, I'm seeing a lot of people who had said, "LC doesn't work for me, it makes me feel like crap" around this board who got taken in by the sweet potato pushers for a while but who now are coming back around and saying, "that doesn't work either. It tastes good but I can't lose any weight without starving". Now they're starting to give low carb another look and try to figure out if they ever really did it right in the first place or if maybe they were in the Attia "zone of misery", permanently on the border.

    I think with the collective mindset so firmly against counting anything, a lot of people have been just eyebal guessing things and not really knowing. You, Betorq, have been doing this for ages and can probably do that just fine but many people's supposedly low carb forays have just been low(er) not really low. Most people don't realize how many carbs are in veggies and, if they are not tracking their portions, they have no way to know. But then they stand there and say I can't do low carb. I hate low carb! Low carb sucks!

    I've been finding the fattier dairy options to be essential in getting enough fat for my ketosis. How did I get to be 50 and never have experienced the ambrosia called Mascarpone Cheese? Peter on the hyperlipid site suggested it. I don't OMG very often but, OMG, that is goooooood.

    Betorq, are you sure that whey and fruit combo isn't too insulin spiking? I find whey shakes just leave me hungrier than when I started.

    I've never cooked with palm oil. It looks kinda weird with that red color. Does it impart any flavor to the food?

    Ah, the joys of parenting someone old enough to be your parent. Wait a minute, they are your parent. I know the feeling. Dad gets sulky at the store sometimes when I won't let him buy things he wants. At least he has no problem staying active. Your Mom has made some great progress. I really hope she's able to make the changes into habits she will keep when you are no longer there keeping her in line.

  6. #846
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    Good morning! Wanted to come say hi in your journal Paleobird. I have enjoyed your comments in other threads. You and Betorq talking about your parental units made me a little misty eyed this morning. I lost my mom four and a half years ago to complications from diabetes (and her stubbornly bad choices) and I really wish I had found this WOE a long, long time ago. Mom was very entrenched in CW and SAD (and cookies) and what her doctors told her to do, so it may not have made any difference but still... Can't help but wonder, you know?

    I skimmed over the comment that someone said about avocado affecting them badly and just wanted to add that, according to a raw food author whose information I like, avocado actually digests as a starch so that may be why some people have issues with it.

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ya know, I'm seeing a lot of people who had said, "LC doesn't work for me, it makes me feel like crap" around this board who got taken in by the sweet potato pushers for a while but who now are coming back around and saying, "that doesn't work either. It tastes good but I can't lose any weight without starving". Now they're starting to give low carb another look and try to figure out if they ever really did it right in the first place or if maybe they were in the Attia "zone of misery", permanently on the border.

    I think with the collective mindset so firmly against counting anything, a lot of people have been just eyebal guessing things and not really knowing. You, Betorq, have been doing this for ages and can probably do that just fine but many people's supposedly low carb forays have just been low(er) not really low. Most people don't realize how many carbs are in veggies and, if they are not tracking their portions, they have no way to know. But then they stand there and say I can't do low carb. I hate low carb! Low carb sucks!
    I don't know, I tracked and measured religiously. But I am also more active than a lot of folks so I likely fall into the athletic ranges that Mark talks about, in which case a person's carb needs are different. I certainly don't think low-carb sucks for everyone, but it sure was miserable for me because I think I was not providing enough carbs and likely not enough protein for both recovery and gluconeogenesis. So my body wasn't getting enough of what it needed to recover, and I felt like crap. I don't think that means everyone will feel awful on <50g carbs, but I think you already knew that I am fairly macro-agnostic and think people should adjust for their needs.

    I'm happily seeing continued slow fat loss and muscle gain on moderate carbs, but that's from someone who regularly cycles, runs, walks, and does LHT--generally some sort of activity every day. I find making sure I'm getting adequate protein is more vital for me than counting carbs. For a more sedentary person or someone with a more messed-up metabolism, I can see why low-carb works.

    I should also clarify that my carbs average at the lower end of the 100-150g range, which is still low-carb by conventional standards, despite it being on the higher carb end of the paleo/primal world. Definitely in running circles, I'm ridiculously low carb.

    Anyhow. I've had a ridiculously busy life lately and am glad to have a little time this afternoon to catch up on your journal.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinNM View Post
    Good morning! Wanted to come say hi in your journal Paleobird. I have enjoyed your comments in other threads. You and Betorq talking about your parental units made me a little misty eyed this morning. I lost my mom four and a half years ago to complications from diabetes (and her stubbornly bad choices) and I really wish I had found this WOE a long, long time ago. Mom was very entrenched in CW and SAD (and cookies) and what her doctors told her to do, so it may not have made any difference but still... Can't help but wonder, you know?

    I skimmed over the comment that someone said about avocado affecting them badly and just wanted to add that, according to a raw food author whose information I like, avocado actually digests as a starch so that may be why some people have issues with it.
    Hello, Other Robin,

    I'm so sorry about your Mom. I'm so glad I was able to talk Dad into this, even at 86 it's making a huge difference. Betorq's Mom still sneaks off for cookies when he turns his back for a minute. It's so hard to parent your parents.

    That's interesting about avocados. They do have more than a few carbs.

    Thanks for the backup on the iodine thread. That is getting nuttier by the day with Grizz and James duking it out. Of the two of them I really prefer James. I don't agree with him on everything but he at least understands what he is presenting instead of the Grizz copy/paste method.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I don't know, I tracked and measured religiously. But I am also more active than a lot of folks so I likely fall into the athletic ranges that Mark talks about, in which case a person's carb needs are different. I certainly don't think low-carb sucks for everyone, but it sure was miserable for me because I think I was not providing enough carbs and likely not enough protein for both recovery and gluconeogenesis. So my body wasn't getting enough of what it needed to recover, and I felt like crap. I don't think that means everyone will feel awful on <50g carbs, but I think you already knew that I am fairly macro-agnostic and think people should adjust for their needs.

    I'm happily seeing continued slow fat loss and muscle gain on moderate carbs, but that's from someone who regularly cycles, runs, walks, and does LHT--generally some sort of activity every day. I find making sure I'm getting adequate protein is more vital for me than counting carbs. For a more sedentary person or someone with a more messed-up metabolism, I can see why low-carb works.
    I think that's it exactly but the forum pundits hyping the higher carb Primal are young with great metabolisms and very athletic. But then they present it as if their experience applies to everybody. It works for them and I'm glad you have found an equilibrium that work for you.

  9. #849
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    However, I still don't eat pounds of sweet potatoes at a sitting. That's just...wow.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ya know, I'm seeing a lot of people who had said, "LC doesn't work for me, it makes me feel like crap" around this board who got taken in by the sweet potato pushers for a while but who now are coming back around and saying, "that doesn't work either. It tastes good but I can't lose any weight without starving". Now they're starting to give low carb another look and try to figure out if they ever really did it right in the first place or if maybe they were in the Attia "zone of misery", permanently on the border.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I think with the collective mindset so firmly against counting anything, a lot of people have been just eyeball guessing things and not really knowing. You, Betorq, have been doing this for ages and can probably do that just fine but many people's supposedly low carb forays have just been low(er) not really low. Most people don't realize how many carbs are in veggies and, if they are not tracking their portions, they have no way to know. But then they stand there and say I can't do low carb. I hate low carb! Low carb sucks!
    I've been doing this for about 2 years with ketosis, on & off. Seriously been doing this about the past year, getting more serious and refined as time goes by. I do feel fine, as I know how to read the signs better than when I started. When I started feeling a little dizzy, I hydrated & ate a small fatty meal, gauging if that helped me feel better. It did, so I incorporated that info into tweaking my routine. Now I'm eating 4 times a day, sometimes 5, even though in the past, my attempts to try that I ended up eating 4-5 full sized meals til stuffed & felt like a beached inert walrus on PBS. This time, it's all different context & terrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I've been finding the fattier dairy options to be essential in getting enough fat for my ketosis. How did I get to be 50 and never have experienced the ambrosia called Mascarpone Cheese? Peter on the hyperlipid site suggested it. I don't OMG very often but, OMG, that is goooooood.
    I'm experimenting on myself, yet once again, this time with a uber coconut fat based & whole meat & seafood based diet severely limiting my veggies ie carbs, going for a different flavor of ketosis this time. And so far it feels good. And yes, mascarpone seriously rocks! As does triple fat brie made from goat milk. There are so many artisanal cheeses & cheese concoctions, decadently fat-laden, ya' gotta love those European gourmands for the intitial inspiration & drive to put in the hours(decades?) to develop, experiment with and eventually master these cheesy delights. I've made cheese, it's simple, to make a simple (very good) cheese. To make something truly OMG!, takes the mind and hand of a master. I've had the good fortune to call a few of these guys my friends (again living in majorly foodie NorCal hasn't hurt in that area)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Betorq, are you sure that whey and fruit combo isn't too insulin spiking? I find whey shakes just leave me hungrier than when I started.

    I've never cooked with palm oil. It looks kinda weird with that red color. Does it impart any flavor to the food?

    Ah, the joys of parenting someone old enough to be your parent. Wait a minute, they are your parent. I know the feeling. Dad gets sulky at the store sometimes when I won't let him buy things he wants. At least he has no problem staying active. Your Mom has made some great progress. I really hope she's able to make the changes into habits she will keep when you are no longer there keeping her in line.
    Time will tell, on the Rita question, after I leave for my long overdue return back to Cali... And the red palm oil does have a strong flavor, it's unique, but I find it's better tolerated by most "normal average" people, tolerated moreso by many people who don't like or outright hate full flavored coconut oil. I think it's red staining color imparts a nice hue to the foods cooked in it. I like it. But not with eggs (red eggs? orange are ok ala turmeric...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    ...Betorq's Mom still sneaks off for cookies when he turns his back for a minute. It's so hard to parent your parents.

    That's interesting about avocados. They do have more than a few carbs.
    Florida avos, the most common varietal being the Lula, are those big smooth-skinned light green ones, have loads more starch/carbs & anywhere from 20-25% less fat than most California-grown Hass avos. My all time fav avo is the indigenous Mexican varietal, the Mexicola Grande, that looks just like a big black plum, has a thin quite edible skin & is the fattiest, sweetest, most addictive avo you can imagine. I eat a 1/2 bag everytime I buy them. They have a short season, like many non-hybridised foods, but someday I swear I WILL grow a thatch of these babies. Cold/frost resistant avos, the Mexicola Grande: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIfaj2Ydl0E

    Not sure Rita sneaks off for cookies, tonight she had a clandestine full-on Chinese dinner, even though I told her the "healthy" oils they advertise on their menus or on their doors, are rancid out of the bottle, GMO canola/soy & the soy sauce in made in 3 days instead of 3 months like we use at home. C'est la vie mon amis... Hey, its her 20%, she's still losin' weight & she did look pretty in her fire-engine red dress when she bolted out the door upon my tired arrival home tonight, home from selling my fermented veggies @ a Health Fair. I had the purtiest booth there, so I was told by the organizer & others.

    Whey is my friend. I've used it for years, with only good results. Adding in some modest amount of fruit, 1/2 banana & the berries with water, is a new thing I'm trying. It's based on a clear advisement directed specifically to me(& anyone else in the room lifting weights), world class former powerlifter ranked #1 @ 198 lbs when he was in his early 20s. He's more recently trained his 16 y.o son as well as his 14 y.o. daughter to also attain #1 rank of champions, beating adults in their respective weight classes. So I trust him enough to give it a whirl... After lifting & swimming, & eating so little carbs the day/night before, the fruit restores my depleted glycogen stores post-workout(within the 45 minute window) & the pure whey is quickly absorbed in the absence of fat. But yes, it does spike the insulin, but it comes right back down, according to Dr. Nelson Bulmash, this Atlanta-based DC/Nutritionalist/Trainer
    Last edited by Betorq; 08-19-2012 at 09:33 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


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