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  1. #2711
    primal me's Avatar
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    This was probably a few pages back but I have a question about Kefir, yogurt etc. I have two sons that are casein allergic and I want to make my own goats yogurt and kefir, we cannot get raw goats milk (aside from it being illegal to sell here I don't know a farmer that produces it). I looked at purchasing the starter cultures but they contain cows milk, can I use water kefir on goats milk? Better yet, if you have any suggestions I am wide open to them. The commercial stuff is expensive and has no real cultures left by the time we get it, I started fermenting veggies but the boys have been slow to eat them.
    Thank you so much for sharing your adventures Paleobird. I enjoy catching up on your journal. I hope to have a response from Cori as well as she is very knowledgeable about these things.
    I'm a 39 y/o mother of 3 sons ages 12, 14, and 15
    HT: 5'7"
    SW: 223 June 2012
    CW: 191.4 April 21 2013
    TWL2D: 32 lbs

    Primal Goals: to feel healthier, fitter, and sexier than ever before

    Favourite primal resources: The Food Lovers Make it Paleo cookbook, Practical Paleo by Diane Sanfilippo, The Food Lovers Kitchen, Primal Kitchen: A Family Grokumentary and of course Mark's Daily Apple!

  2. #2712
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Well... sour cream is one type of cultured cream.
    But it's far from the only type.
    And other types such as Mexican Crema and Creme Bulgare have far richer flavors IMO.
    It has to do with the types of bugs that do the culturing.
    Kefir cultured sour cream/creme fraiche is very nice as well. Better in flavor than sour cream also IMO.
    But they each have their own flavor and place in the cultured world.

    Also, while sour cream is made from cultured cream it is generally pasteurized AFTER culturing. Good luck finding a sour cream with active cultures.
    If you whip up some kefir cream at home... delicious nutritious cultures!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ah ha! The full story emerges.

    So, what cultures would I need to make crema Mexicana. I love that stuff. I can just eat that right out of the jar. And do.
    Yeah, I love all forms of sour cream and cultured cream. Sour cream, creme freche, crema Mexicana (this is the one I have the hardest time finding with no additives) etc. I don't make them myself, though.

    Two brands of sour cream I can readily find that have active cultures are Nancy’s Organic Cultured Sour Cream and Organic Valley sour cream (or at least they say they have).
    Last edited by liza; 05-22-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  3. #2713
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    Quote Originally Posted by primal me View Post
    This was probably a few pages back but I have a question about Kefir, yogurt etc. I have two sons that are casein allergic and I want to make my own goats yogurt and kefir, we cannot get raw goats milk (aside from it being illegal to sell here I don't know a farmer that produces it). I looked at purchasing the starter cultures but they contain cows milk, can I use water kefir on goats milk? Better yet, if you have any suggestions I am wide open to them. The commercial stuff is expensive and has no real cultures left by the time we get it, I started fermenting veggies but the boys have been slow to eat them.
    Thank you so much for sharing your adventures Paleobird. I enjoy catching up on your journal. I hope to have a response from Cori as well as she is very knowledgeable about these things.
    You'll need dairy kefir grains to culture goats milk. Water kefir grains are a bit different and, although they can be used sort of interchangeably in the short term... they will eventually die off.

    Any dairy kefir grains will be fine. It takes a little time for grains that have been in cow dairy to acclimate into goats dairy, say 2 batches(because your amount of grains will be small at first your first few batches will be small as well, also you can totally still cook with batches of milk that did not fully culture)... but after that they should culture to infinity and beyond with proper care.


    Note: Pasteurized goats milk is fine to culture, but NEVER ever use any "ultra pasturized" milk products.

    Milk Kefir Grains | Dairy Kefir Starter Culture
    This link has grains and some info on culturing.

    Things to do with good whole milk kefir to make it irresistible... add about a 1/2 tsp of vanilla bean paste and a drop or two of stevia to a cup of it. NOM!!! dessert "shake"!
    Stick blender an apricot into it!

    Make a water-butterfly... 1/3 milk kefir, 2/3 fruit water kefir(also full of good bugs). Like a probiotic italian cream soda!

    You're boys will love their bacteria in no time I think!
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  4. #2714
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    I do some water kefir with herbal infusions like mint, and I do ginger... soo... maybe.
    I'll give that a gander.

    *edit: I dug. Yes indeed, you can make water kefir tea.
    You simply make plain water kefir, remove the grains, then cold steep 1-2 tbsp of the tea of your choice into 1.5 pints of the kefir water.
    (OR, you can make a strongish, but not bitter, and cooled tea brew. Mix it 50/50 with your finished, grains removed, kefir water and let that get friendly for 6+ hours before moving it to the next step.)

    For a 16 oz Grolsch bottle a tsp or two of sugar water should be added for the second ferment and maybe tbsp of lemon juice should be added for the second ferment.
    I suppose you'd have to play with the sugar and lemon levels in this to adjust to you own liking. I'm assuming this is like a sweetish lemony slightly fizzy iced tea... ?
    I think that has some promise though!

    I know that minty, vanilla, lemon fizz is fabulous.

    Evidently it's not a good idea to put teas, herbs, and such directly in with the kefir grains since they have properties that the grains don't like... tannins, oils, chemicals, etc.
    But it's fine to use during the second step which is the normal time for flavoring anyway.
    I'm glad I looked that up... I've gotten away with brewing with an infusion in the first step sometimes, but I'm going to stop doing that. I did't do it repetitively enough to make a big difference I think. Bit still.
    Quote Originally Posted by primal me View Post
    This was probably a few pages back but I have a question about Kefir, yogurt etc. I have two sons that are casein allergic and I want to make my own goats yogurt and kefir, we cannot get raw goats milk (aside from it being illegal to sell here I don't know a farmer that produces it). I looked at purchasing the starter cultures but they contain cows milk, can I use water kefir on goats milk? Better yet, if you have any suggestions I am wide open to them. The commercial stuff is expensive and has no real cultures left by the time we get it, I started fermenting veggies but the boys have been slow to eat them.
    Thank you so much for sharing your adventures Paleobird. I enjoy catching up on your journal. I hope to have a response from Cori as well as she is very knowledgeable about these things.
    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    You'll need dairy kefir grains to culture goats milk. Water kefir grains are a bit different and, although they can be used sort of interchangeably in the short term... they will eventually die off.

    Any dairy kefir grains will be fine. It takes a little time for grains that have been in cow dairy to acclimate into goats dairy, say 2 batches(because your amount of grains will be small at first your first few batches will be small as well, also you can totally still cook with batches of milk that did not fully culture)... but after that they should culture to infinity and beyond with proper care.


    Note: Pasteurized goats milk is fine to culture, but NEVER ever use any "ultra pasturized" milk products.

    Milk Kefir Grains | Dairy Kefir Starter Culture
    This link has grains and some info on culturing.

    Things to do with good whole milk kefir to make it irresistible... add about a 1/2 tsp of vanilla bean paste and a drop or two of stevia to a cup of it. NOM!!! dessert "shake"!
    Stick blender an apricot into it!

    Make a water-butterfly... 1/3 milk kefir, 2/3 fruit water kefir(also full of good bugs). Like a probiotic italian cream soda!

    You're boys will love their bacteria in no time I think!
    You should write a fermentation for dummies book, Cori.

  5. #2715
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    I've been at GMan's house for the past two days having lots and lots of sex.

    He bought steak and eggs and real butter based on my nose wrinkling at his egg beaters, I can't believe it's not butter, and old pizza in the fridge the last time I visited. We had a huge steak and eggs brunch feast. There may be hope for his diet yet. He's quite fit especially for being 60 but he has bought into the govt mantras about evil sat fat and healthywholegrains. He is quite impressed with the changes he sees in me. (I was 65 lbs heavier when we parted 5 years ago.) So, he is willing to listen but I'm trying not to push too hard and get preachy.

  6. #2716
    primal me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    You should write a fermentation for dummies book, Cori.
    I'd buy that book! I've already picked up Wild Fermentation and The Art of Fermentation, both by the same author but I can't remember his name.

    Will there be enough milk protein in the starter culture/kefir grains to cause a reaction or should I wait until the second or third batches to feed it to my boys? I'd rather avoid upsetting their systems any more than I have to and one of the boys has a psycho-reactive allergy, his behavior changes quite severely and I try to avoid that at all costs.

    Sorry to jack your thread Paleobird.
    I'm a 39 y/o mother of 3 sons ages 12, 14, and 15
    HT: 5'7"
    SW: 223 June 2012
    CW: 191.4 April 21 2013
    TWL2D: 32 lbs

    Primal Goals: to feel healthier, fitter, and sexier than ever before

    Favourite primal resources: The Food Lovers Make it Paleo cookbook, Practical Paleo by Diane Sanfilippo, The Food Lovers Kitchen, Primal Kitchen: A Family Grokumentary and of course Mark's Daily Apple!

  7. #2717
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    Quote Originally Posted by primal me View Post
    I'd buy that book! I've already picked up Wild Fermentation and The Art of Fermentation, both by the same author but I can't remember his name.

    Will there be enough milk protein in the starter culture/kefir grains to cause a reaction or should I wait until the second or third batches to feed it to my boys? I'd rather avoid upsetting their systems any more than I have to and one of the boys has a psycho-reactive allergy, his behavior changes quite severely and I try to avoid that at all costs.

    Sorry to jack your thread Paleobird.
    Since he has a reactive allergy to cow dairy I'd wait until the second batch to give him any.
    The grains you get generally amount to about 2 Tbsp, and are made of gelatinous gobs of bacteria that form colonies... so they aren't really like "grains" at all. But since they were very likely previously cultured in cow dairy they might have some residue adhering them even if they were rinsed.

    After the first acclimation batch I think any residue will be done away with to a degree that it will be safe, and fully colonized by goaty things.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  8. #2718
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    zoebird is online now Senior Member
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    yay about lots of sex followed by steak and eggs.

  9. #2719
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    Primal me, I think the books you mentioned were by Sandor Katz.

  10. #2720
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    yay about lots of sex followed by steak and eggs.
    Followed by more sex. A very good way to spend some time together indeed.

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