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Thread: Paleobird's Next Big Adventure page 179

  1. #1781
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    Or (and this may offend some but whatever) almost anything endorsed by Mercola.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  2. #1782
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    Re: protein intake. I read an interesting article at the Human Food Project, here ---> Do spider monkeys hold the key to why we get fat?. Here's a significant paragraph in that article:

    "However, the detailed dietary studies in the Bolivian rainforest found that across all age groups and sexes, spider monkeys aim for a target amount of protein, regardless of how few or many calories from carbohydrates and fats they consumed in the process. In other words, the daily protein intake remained remarkably stable throughout the study period, but the overall calories from carbohydrates and fats fluctuated significantly."

    They call this the protein leverage hypothesis, and studies have found that the results from spider monkeys have been found in studies done with pigs, rodents, bird, and fish--and humans.

    And then this, from the same article:

    "Average protein consumption in the U.S. hovers around 15% of total energy consumed. The National Institute of Medicine – whose reports heavily influence the USDA’s dietary guidelines for Americans – suggests a range of 10-35% for protein as a percentage of energy intake. At 15%, the average American is on the low end. Analysis of modern-day and historical hunter gatherer groups around the world suggest a protein intake on the upper limits of that suggested by the lab coats over at the National Institute of Medicine."

    When I eat WHEN, paleo+limited dairy, I average around 30% protein grams. This is almost exactly what I weigh in pounds, one gram of protein per pound of total body weight. Eating this way, I have plenty of energy and easily maintain my desired weight without cravings (and my carbs are between 50 and 100g/day). This is certainly more protein than recommended by the USDA, and is the upper end of what the NIM recommends. Granted, I'm pretty active and Lift very Heavy Things (for my size, I'm small), several times a week.

    We're all n=1, though, and I agree that careful nutrition tracking for a period of time (not always) is the sure way to help anyone figure out what works best for them.

  3. #1783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Or (and this may offend some but whatever) almost anything endorsed by Mercola.
    Mercola's show, at one time, used to have some pretty decent content but then it basically devolved into an infomercial for the latest miracle supplement du jour.

  4. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
    Re: protein intake. I read an interesting article at the Human Food Project, here ---> Do spider monkeys hold the key to why we get fat?. Here's a significant paragraph in that article:

    "However, the detailed dietary studies in the Bolivian rainforest found that across all age groups and sexes, spider monkeys aim for a target amount of protein, regardless of how few or many calories from carbohydrates and fats they consumed in the process. In other words, the daily protein intake remained remarkably stable throughout the study period, but the overall calories from carbohydrates and fats fluctuated significantly."

    They call this the protein leverage hypothesis, and studies have found that the results from spider monkeys have been found in studies done with pigs, rodents, bird, and fish--and humans.

    And then this, from the same article:

    "Average protein consumption in the U.S. hovers around 15% of total energy consumed. The National Institute of Medicine – whose reports heavily influence the USDA’s dietary guidelines for Americans – suggests a range of 10-35% for protein as a percentage of energy intake. At 15%, the average American is on the low end. Analysis of modern-day and historical hunter gatherer groups around the world suggest a protein intake on the upper limits of that suggested by the lab coats over at the National Institute of Medicine."

    When I eat WHEN, paleo+limited dairy, I average around 30% protein grams. This is almost exactly what I weigh in pounds, one gram of protein per pound of total body weight. Eating this way, I have plenty of energy and easily maintain my desired weight without cravings (and my carbs are between 50 and 100g/day). This is certainly more protein than recommended by the USDA, and is the upper end of what the NIM recommends. Granted, I'm pretty active and Lift very Heavy Things (for my size, I'm small), several times a week.

    We're all n=1, though, and I agree that careful nutrition tracking for a period of time (not always) is the sure way to help anyone figure out what works best for them.
    I think the lack of protein in the SAD is why a lot of people see initial good results just by switching to Primal.

    Your smaller size and heavier lifting do make a difference in the amount you need as a percentage. I am a larger person who doesn't lift so heavy so I need less.

    But I think that is an interesting hypothesis about focusing on the protein first as an absolute number and then fitting carb and fat in around the edges and the percentages of those two really don't matter that much. That was basically the conclusion we collectively came to on my monster calorie counting threads.

  5. #1785
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    I agree that i have to find what works for me, but i'm curious as to the science behind what certain numbers are and where they come from.

    The spider monkey article is an interesting movement in that direction. I also dug up one of mark's blogs that talked about the same organization doing the study.

    Right now, about 25% of my diet is protein, and I don't feel anything is bad/wrong or what have you. But it's certainly not as low as the RDAs.

  6. #1786
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    I think there are as many scientifically defensible positions as there are scientists. The downfall of a lot of the science is that the studies have been conducted on young studs like Choco, by, for, and about young guys.

    I generally end up at 70/25/5 f/p/c without really trying to hit that, it just comes out that way.

    Lately I have been looking into the ideas in the carnivorous diet WOE. Some of them are pretty far off the deep end, but there are some more moderate voices that are very interesting. I am finding that my digestive system is thanking me for backing off on the huge ass salads etc. The moderate position of carnivorousness is that the diet be animal product centered but they do not say you are going straight to dietary hell for having some seaweed salad and sushi. They just insist that any plant matter included "pull its weight" in terms of adding enough value to the diet. Not just eating something at the urging of the maternal voice in your head saying, "Eat your vegetables. They're good for you."

    It's interesting stuff. Has anyone else dabbled in this?

  7. #1787
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    I haven't dabbled in it, but I can put out what's been happening around these parts.

    Since we started IFing, both Dh and I are down about 100-200 cals/day apiece. Both of us took this out of our carbs, largely, and also our carbs are highly nutritious overall (and diverse/seasonal). What we both noticed is that we consume less fruit, foremost, and then from there, we consume less veg. Our meat/eggs/butter/fats have stayed constant.

    Which would push me more towards 50F/30P/25C because the calorie restriction puts us that way.

    It's in no way "VLC." Definitely getting above 50g per day (but then, I'm not "net" carb counting, so it may be VLC for all I can figure), and somedays up to 100g (more likely when I'm closer to menses).

    I would particularly think that because of the specific needs and how keto-diets help with that, I don't think it would be a problem to decrease the amount of veg you are eating down to next to nil, really. I mean, I think if you did eat really high quality stuff -- you know, what interests your palate and is beautiful and tasty, then it's great.

    I would also imagine that if you used spices -- used whole herbs, etc to make sauces -- you'd get a lot of nutrients as well. Things like harrissa (sp?), and different pestos and the like. Probably very yum. And, you'd still get the nutrients because those things are really nutritionally rich.

  8. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ya. I think a lot of people stopped reading when they got to the word "bacon". The calorie tracking part is not till chapter eight. They had put down the book and gone to the kitchen to fry up a pound of bacon humming, "Happy Day Are Here Again" and never got back around to reading the rest.
    LOL. Truth.
    I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.

    Oscar Wilde

  9. #1789
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    I think the question of one's tendencies is interesting. Left to my own tastes, I will tend toward lots of vegetables and fruit, but I don't tend to do a lot of salad except in late spring and summer. Otherwise I really like brassicas and the really dark greens like chard, kale, and beet greens, and I love my root vegetables. I also like fruit a lot. But I tend not to want a lot of really fatty stuff--I like fat, don't get me wrong, but too much and I feel cloyed by it--and I don't like actual sweets all that much.

    I haven't actually tracked macros in a while, but I think my tendency is toward a fairly even 30/30/30 with a flexible 10% (usually that ends up as fat I think because it's more calorically dense, and also I love avocado when I can get it). Also, I don't have meat at every meal, preferring eggs a lot of times.

    I wonder if once we clean up our diets, get away from processed foods, and establish how much we need, then do we just eventually fall into a rhythm that keeps us at a fairly steady weight? I'm curious because it seems like the long-time primal folks develop a style that works for them and can do it without much thought.

    As for carnivorous, I don't think I'd feel happy on it. I really like my plant matter far too much. I don't eat it because I feel obligated--I eat it because for me, I actually crave certain plant foods and feel happier when I'm including them.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  10. #1790
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    same, owly.

    I dno't think I could go to completely meat/eggs with veg/fruit as a sauce/side dish. I think it can be done healthfully, but I love my produce too much. I'd only go there if I felt it was really worth it. Giving up meat/dairy and grains/beans was easy, though, comparatively. I'm not sure I could do without fruit/veg! Probably would be ok, though.

    I dont' think i'm at 30/30/30 -- thought I thought I was heading that way. Seems i've just regulated out again to where I was. so weird.

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