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Thread: Paleobird's Next Big Adventure page 142

  1. #1411
    Jac's Avatar
    Jac
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    Another quick thought about neuroleptics - I've talked to lots of people who've taken them, and there is a consistency about their reports that those suckers can stop your ability to articulate what's going on. So things can get really scary for them, and they can't tell anyone about it - they can only act it out. But the consciousness is still there, and can come back.

    I really, really hope that your absence isn't a sign of bad things happening. Arohanui (much love) from NZ, along with some springtime light.
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Journalling here

    "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path" - Morpheus

  2. #1412
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    magicmerl is offline Senior Member
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    My thoughts are with you as you are going through this with your dad.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  3. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by jac View Post

    arohanui (much love) from nz, along with some springtime light.

    ++++++++
    g
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  4. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jac View Post
    Yeah, it does suck.

    Haloperidol is seriously nasty stuff. What you described about your Dad wanting to leave sounds reasonable and could be still associated with the sundowners. There's some speculation that it's to do with brain oxygenation, but there are other explanations to do with sleep rhythms and depth, blood sugar etc. Mostly it means that in the evening people tend to get confused and frightened, and my understanding is that it's worse when they're out of their usual environment and routines. I associate it also with the time of day that a fever will spike - there's something about our organism that leaves us vulnerable at that time. This latest confusion will definitely be made worse by the haloperidol, and it's not quick to leave the system with a half-life from a single dose of up to 1.5 days for some people and over 6 days for people who have used it routinely. I wouldn't be assessing him for cognitive function for at least 3-4 days after that injection, and longer if he gets it or another neuroleptic or sedative.

    Is there any chance you could get a private nurse or caregiver to be with him when you can't be there? Trusting hospital staff to follow your instructions and call you if there are any changes has to be a worry for you now. That was a big breach, and shows that they're still not understanding what you want for him.
    Thanks Jac. That is the best explanation of sundowning i've heard yet. And, yes, we are looking into in-home care options. I don't blame the staff for doing what they had to do to sedate him but they still should have notified us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crabbcakes View Post
    Good grief, Paleobird... wish I could be there to give you a huge-ass hug and then play bulldog guard for your Dad for you while you are home doing necessary stuff. Hang in there. HUGS!!!
    Thanks, Crabbcakes. I think we a re starting to get things sorted out. The good food and no insulin (Gee, when you don't feed him all those carbs, he doesn't need insulin. Surprise, surprise!)

    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    I'm so sorry this is happening. Wish I had a magic wand that I could wave from afar and that everything would be better!
    Thanks, Lissee. I've had that Billy Joel song in my head a lot lately. It's a good self calming device.

    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    Sounds like a combination of factors, so I'm going to talk about my grandma.

    My grandmother has very mild memory problems, and she takes medication for it. Some years ago, she had to have a minor operation, and she was behaving as erratically as you are describing. It turns out that the medication for the infection/infection prevention as well as the sedatives they had her one (and the anesthesia from the operation) made her completely bats.

    She was combative, she had the same fears/complaints come right up, and even believed that people were trying to arrest her and take her to the asylum.

    Part of it is that the medications tend to drop a lot of filters. Most of us know the difference between dreams/nightmares, our normal fears (which we tend to keep under a modicum of control), and our waking reality.

    The problem is that these drugs break down those barriers. Usually, it's anesthesia, but the rest of things do not help either. And cipro has a serious side effect in terms of having a psychotropic effect.

    Thus, during this situation, they experience a lot of disorientation from being in the hospital, from being woken up repeatedly, plus the fact that the drugs are in their system having the normal side effects that they have for everyone, but are particularly prominent in geriatric patients.

    Once my grandmother got out of the hospital from her operation, she did ok. The only problems seem to arise when she has an infection, and typically they send the nurse practitioner around to check on her. She's completely irrational during these times. . . and very aggressive towards the nurse practitioner. BUT, they have a male doctor (who is young, but dyed his hair grey because no one listened to him until he did) and she will listen to him and take any pill he prescribes. He usually prescribes a mild antibiotic. The symptoms continue until the antibiotic clears her system, and then she's back to normal.

    Which is to say that she's not rampantly crazy or aggressive, just her normal anxious self (she's a bit anxious naturally), and then also with her mild memory problems. Overall, she's sweet and fun to be around, so she does ok.

    She never remembers if you call, write, or skype, which is why I send the emails to my mother and uncle, and my uncle prints and gives them to her once a week when he takes her to church.

    My grandmother is in her late 70s, btw. She's otherwise quite active -- she walks a lot, goes to water aerobics (which involves a lot of fore-planning for a person with memory problems) and is part of htat red hat group (or is it the purple hat group?). She also goes to church and spends most of her time in the child care rather than in church because she loves babies and kids.

    So, I just share to let you know that this might be temporary. Or mostly temporary.
    Thanks Zoe. The neurologist saw him today and said that haloperidol can have the opposite effect from what it has in regular people when used in geriatric cases. It can actually agitate them further. Great!

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    You know, when I had my hysterectomy I totally freaked out, too. I don't know what the deal was, if it was the medications they had me on or being confined in a bed and surrounded with tangled tubes and wires and not being able to really move plus having these rubber cuffs puffing away on my legs and the whole deal, but the first night there I just started freaking out. I was overwhelmed with panic and fear. And even though I was in my right mind and knew my panic was unreasonable I couldn't help it. I totally freaked out. Fortunately my mom pulled a full-on Terms of Endearment scene on the nurses until they gave me something to help calm me down. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if you were not aware of what was happening, how confusing that would be.
    Oh God, I remember after my mastectomy, getting to a totally freaked out point, some serious morphine probably making that even worse. I remember ranting at the nurses to just do all the fucking tests they needed to do at one time and then just let me sleep. And every time they wake you up for yet another pill or injection or BP test, they turn on those bloody florescent lights right in your eyes. It's enough to drive a young healthy person who hasn't had a stroke "around the bend".

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I remember how hard it was to watch when my mother would get confused, scared, and angry like that. It is difficult to remember that it isn't them but the illness making them act that way. I also remember how frustrating and scary it was for me when medical decisions were made without us knowing.

    Much empathy for you while you're dealing with all this. It's a lot to manage.
    Thank you Owly. It is so hard to watch my intelligent, dignified, gentle Dad going through this. It must be terrifying for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacmac View Post
    Bloody hell PB, what a lot you and your family are coping with. They say the light here in Australia is different to elsewhere in the world so I am sending you plenty of Love and Light
    Jackie
    Thank you Jackie. We could use some real sunlight here. When you spend most of the day in a fluorescently lit building and don't come out until after dark, all of us are getting screwed up circadian functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jac View Post
    Another quick thought about neuroleptics - I've talked to lots of people who've taken them, and there is a consistency about their reports that those suckers can stop your ability to articulate what's going on. So things can get really scary for them, and they can't tell anyone about it - they can only act it out. But the consciousness is still there, and can come back.

    I really, really hope that your absence isn't a sign of bad things happening. Arohanui (much love) from NZ, along with some springtime light.
    Yes, Dad keeps struggling to find the word he wants. He is just babbling most of the time now and making absolutely no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    My thoughts are with you as you are going through this with your dad.
    Thanks, Magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
    ++++++++
    g
    Thanks, Gwamma.


    Things are devolving quickly. The nurse just called me and said they just had a repeat performance of the past two nights and Dad had to be sedated and forcibly put back in bed again. At least this time they did call. I managed to talk him down over the phone for a few minutes, explaining to him that he should get back in bed and leave the wires on his chest alone and let the nice nurses help him. It only "stuck" for a few seconds and then he was back at it again tearing off his wired and pulling out his IV.

    BLOODY HELL !!!!!!

  5. #1415
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    So sorry to hear about the repeat performance w/the IV & wires. And am frustrated for you with the doctors giving him meds that are Known to adversely affect geriatric patients!!! HUGE sigh over here. From all that been going on, it's good to hear that in-home, care options are an alternative. !! I hope that the people who are advising you are fabulous, and can explain the options clearly so you know which direction to take.

    Getting him home, to a familiar environment, where you can control the food he eats better could make a very positive difference.

    This last weekend I was out hiking through the Vienna hills (it was a yearly wine festival). The weather was good, I was with a friend, and I made excuses for indulging myself... I drank about 2 liters of fresh grape juice in .25 liter servings from different wine houses, had six slices of bread, and a bag of potato chips. (Granted, the bread was slathered with different types of herbed cheeses, and in one case smaltz (lard) with tiny bits of salty port in it. Yum!

    But still, all those carbs!!!! and sugar!!!! when I've been eating no-sugar for months now, and super low carb for a good while now. Anyway, by the end of the day, I felt sick, I had a pounding migrane headache through the night and into the morning. Literally pounding. And I was irritable. So when I read about your dad, I keep thinking that the high carby/sugary breakfast & lunches the hospital snuck in has had to have played a role. If in the morning he's doing well, and then by evening he's not. Perhaps the sugar is messing with him, like it did with me?

    Your sister is on my mind this morning, and I kind of wondered how she's handling everything. I'm hoping that she's been a good support through this (instead of an additional source of stress), someone to share these decisions and all the necessary work with. Am hoping that the house cleaning/improvements are going well.
    Last edited by lissee; 10-02-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  6. #1416
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    zoebird is offline Senior Member
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    Waiting for updates is tough.

    I hope everything is going well, and that everyone is out enjoying the sunshine (and not stuck in the yucky hospital).

  7. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    Waiting for updates is tough.

    I hope everything is going well, and that everyone is out enjoying the sunshine (and not stuck in the yucky hospital).
    Sure is! And me too.

  8. #1418
    NZ primal Gwamma's Avatar
    NZ primal Gwamma is offline Senior Member
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    +1

    G
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    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  9. #1419
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    Ditto
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Journalling here

    "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path" - Morpheus

  10. #1420
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    Thinking of you.
    Paula Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

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