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  1. #71
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    Last edited by Gadsie; 10-24-2012 at 06:15 AM.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihana View Post
    You are growing, it can fit anything

    I know you have been looking at the physical aspects of eating this way. I am quite curious if you are tracking the mental aspects. How has your mental focus been? Has school been more bearable to deal with? Are your grades the same or are they improving? Things of that nature.

    I ask because you are so young. There is little in the way of anecdotal evidence on this way of eating and teenagers, and the anecdotes for children are only a little better.
    I'm 15. I have been fed mostly primal my entire life. Both my brother and I are excellent students. There is definitely a correlation between eating primal and grades. I would also like to add that both of us have 20/10 vision, contrary to our parents who have below average vision.

    I DO NOT TAKE SHOTS. I haven't taken any since when I was a baby and that was a big mistake.They're simply a way for drug companies to sell us another product. Google for the ingredients...you may be amazed. There are a growing number of children who become very ill or die from vaccines. However, do to a horrible law passed by the drug companies, you can't sue them....only the government. That means we're paying for it. It bothers me how little the primal people focus on things like this. It's funny how we disagree with the government on what to eat but blindly follow what they say on other matters.

    I must also give some recommendations. Never feed a kid soda or chocolate. These are two highly addictive foods that a child will need young exposure to to have a taste for. I hate soda and chocolate is nice but I don't care about it at all. (I'm not attacking any dark chocolate crazies, but life is a lot better without this addiction) That is one of the greatest gifts you can give a child. If there is anything else you'd like to know about feeding kids and teens actual food and not injecting them with poison, feel free to ask.

  3. #73
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    Last edited by Gadsie; 10-24-2012 at 06:15 AM.

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    Last edited by Gadsie; 10-24-2012 at 06:15 AM.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadsie View Post
    I totally understand what you're saying! Unfortunately I'm "addicted" to chocolate because my oarents kept it in the house all the time (only very dark chocolate though) but my parents told me candy was gross when I was 3 years old. I believed this and i was afraid to even taste candy until I was 12 or so. At this point I had been without candy for so long that I actually didn't like it and I still don't
    That's hilarious about the candy. I bet your parents find it amusing how well that worked.

  6. #76
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    I knew how much I should eat to have optimal health.

    This question has been answered for you many times. You should eat until you feel full/satiated.

    I knew the difference between hunger and craving.

    I'm going to assume a difference. One is physiological, one is emotional/psychological. For the second, you can simply ask yourself a series of questions such as "am I trying to avoid feeling something?" or "am i trying to avoid something?" or some such.

    I didn't want to continue eating after 4000+ calories in 1-2 sittings.

    If you are hungry, it's fine to eat. And yes, sometimes people over or under estimate what they eat. I guess that you over-eastimate, but even if you don't, this isn't unheard of.

    thin body types -- and in particular very active ones -- need a ridiculous amount of calories. Add to that your age (and growth requirements) and you have a recipe for a high caloric need.

    At age 23, swimmer michael phelps was inthe pool 5 hrs a day training -- and he consumed 12000 calories a day. You read that right TWELVE THOUSAND calories.

    I would be worried about you if you were eating 4,000 calories and becoming pudgy in the process. But my guess is that you haven't gained any weight, and any that you have gained is a minimal amount of fat/muscle in a normal ratio as relative to your height and growth rates.

    I did not obsess so much.


    Then go to therapy.

    There was somebody who understands me a 100%.

    I wager you don't understand you 100%, so why expect someone else? your job? figure out you 100%.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    I knew how much I should eat to have optimal health.

    This question has been answered for you many times. You should eat until you feel full/satiated.
    He knows that. That leaves margin for error...if he eats one extra calorie or one too little his health will falter. (the issue with his disorder is he believes this no matter how hard he tries to change this view)
    I knew the difference between hunger and craving.

    I'm going to assume a difference. One is physiological, one is emotional/psychological. For the second, you can simply ask yourself a series of questions such as "am I trying to avoid feeling something?" or "am i trying to avoid something?" or some such.

    Not good enough. Remember, if he accidentally eats based on craving instead of hunger he becomes fat and develops diabetes. On such an important matter you need something more concrete than the type of feeling.

    I didn't want to continue eating after 4000+ calories in 1-2 sittings.

    If you are hungry, it's fine to eat. And yes, sometimes people over or under estimate what they eat. I guess that you over-eastimate, but even if you don't, this isn't unheard of.

    He obsesses over if he is hungry or not. If grok happened to kill an animal, but was full, what would he do? Eat it anyway. Eating food when you're full or not eating when you're hungry won't send you to the grave. In fact, hunger is influenced by so many factors that you may as well realize that you cannot consume the perfect amount of food. That's fine for you as well as 40 year old woman with sluggish metabolisms. If you believe in primal, you understand this because only in recent times have people been able to consume their desired amount of food.
    thin body types -- and in particular very active ones -- need a ridiculous amount of calories. Add to that your age (and growth requirements) and you have a recipe for a high caloric need.

    At age 23, swimmer michael phelps was inthe pool 5 hrs a day training -- and he consumed 12000 calories a day. You read that right TWELVE THOUSAND calories.

    That's irrelevant. If Michael Phelps needs 12,000 calories to maintain his weight, good for him. That must mean he burns a lot of calories swimming so intensely. Please do remember that a lot of professional athletes are freaks
    and what is right for them is probably not right for most people.

    I would be worried about you if you were eating 4,000 calories and becoming pudgy in the process. But my guess is that you haven't gained any weight, and any that you have gained is a minimal amount of fat/muscle in a normal ratio as relative to your height and growth rates.

    She's right

    I did not obsess so much.


    Then go to therapy.

    It is certainly possible the right therapist could help you get over some of your issues.
    There was somebody who understands me a 100%.

    I wager you don't understand you 100%, so why expect someone else? your job? figure out you 100%. I don't find it challenging to understand what he is saying without getting all mystical about it. Maybe you will find someone who understands you someday. Unfortunately, most people don't..
    ..

  8. #78
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    SteakNChops,

    First, I'm not necessarily assuming a disorder here, though it is highly likely, which is why I recommended that he go to therapy. Honestly, it's a very beneficial process.

    Secondarily, in therapy, he will learn about how to follow his hunger -- which is part of a common therapeutic model -- rather than his obsessions. And, he'll learn the difference between a craving that is physiological in origin (what pregnant ladies experience) vs one that is social, emotional, or manic (obsession-driven).

    Third, I'm well aware of the issues related to bringing up ideas such as Phelps, but the point is that the first question cannot be answered by an outsider *unless* how he is eating (calorie restricted or calorie unrestricted) is creating ill health. Phelps is simply an example of a tall, thin (and also muscular) person who is very active who consumes 12,000 calories a day. Is he an outlier? absolutely. BUT, if someone told him he could only eat 3,000 calories a day, then what? he'd likely either starve or not preform or both. Likewise, there are other athletes who eat in that 3,000-5,000 calorie range (in the same sport) who were competitors of phelps.

    Finally, I also don't find it challenging to understand what he is "getting at" -- but his focus shouldn't be looking outside for some of this, but rather inside. And that's the point. No one needs ot understand him 100% except for him, and when he does, he'll ahve self acceptance, and when he does, he'll have less obsession over this, and when he does, he'll be able to look out and find someone with whom to partner, rather than trying to find someone who "nuderstands him 100%."

    I've been with my husband 15 years now. most days I don't understand him at all, let alone 100%. Still, I love him and we make good partners. So, it's not necessary.

    But what is necessary, in my experience, is self-knowledge. You get that, and you've got everything.

  9. #79
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    Last edited by Gadsie; 10-24-2012 at 06:16 AM.

  10. #80
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    Yes, the quality of counsellors varies widely, as does their training and expertise. it's really about shopping around. And, you have to trust them enough to talk, and you have to do the homework which is really, really hard. But, it's worth it.

    And no, you actually aren't right.

    The reality is that there are lots of reasons why people gain weight, and lots of reasons why they loose it and either do or don't regain it. I can only go through a few examples, but I'll do my best.

    First, there are the larger body types. These are naturally larger people. They are "fat" in our culture, and maligned for it. But they are often perfectly healthy at this size, and may never loose the weight because they aren't meant to. And they do yo-yo because of social pressure. But their bodies will usually go back to it's comfortable weight -- and there's nothing wrong with this.

    And it is likely that you don't qualify under this category, because you haven't been 'husky' to date. And typically husky adults are husky children.

    Second, there are people who are food addicts. Food addiction has many forms, and one of them is eating compulsively. Even on diets, compulsive eaters may not remember eating compulsively. Or, they'll be fine and loose weight and get healthy but then they'll head out into a stressed time and the behavior returns. For compulsive eaters and/or food addicts, it may be a constant battle to simply keep the behavior in check. And, yo-yo-ing might be a part of it.

    Third, there are people who gain weight due to a health issue and the medication required for it. Typically, when the medication is no longer required or the health issue managed, the person looses the excess weight and it doesn't come back. This is because the problem was solved via the medical condition being solved and the medication removed from the system.

    Forth, there are emotional eaters. An emotional eater will be able to keep the weight off if s/he deals with the emotional eating. If the person simply diets (calories in/out), then when the emotions run high, they'll comfort feed and eventually gain weight. Solve the problem of emotional eating, and the emotional eater will not gain weight.

    Finally, there is that which happens in modern life.

    When they are young, people eat a lot. I honestly think it's why the Norse people sent teenagers out viking. "GO and eat other people's food." I'm pretty sure that was why. Because, honestly, viking era was pretty sparse in the growing season and a teen will eat you out of house and home. this is simply common knowledge.

    Then, in our culture, they go to unverisity and learn how to binge drink. This is really unhealthy behavior and when weight gain starts, but being both young and active at this age, most kids can "carry" it.

    Then they graduate from the young/active life and enter a cubicle farm where they sit 8-10 hours a day without moving. Many compete to get the parking spot closest to the door, even, which means that they are walking two very short distances -- house to car and car to work -- twice a day. it's probably about 30 steps. The average adult probably takes about 1,000 steps in a day which isn't much at all.

    But, they've continued to eat like they were active college students still burning off crazy amounts of energy pulling all-nighters and runing around campus and playing intramural sports and going dancing at the clubs.

    So now, their calories exceed their needs. And they begin to gain weight.

    Most people discover this about 5 years in, some less. But, once they discover it -- assuming that it happens -- they take one of two routes: 1. completely deny what is happening and/or chalk it up to 'aging' or 2. go and get their lives together.

    This second group rarely has problems getting the weight off and keeping it off once they have adopted a holistic, healthy lifestyle. Assuming that they don't have any other issues above (food addictions, metabolic issues, emotional eating, etc), then they'll have no trouble maintaining. But, it might take some diligence. At first, it will take a lot, and then it becomes much easier.

    And, most choose a diagnostic tool to see whether they are healthy or not. I choose to measure my waist. My husband uses body fat percentage. His father uses a scale (which is pretty useless if you ask me, because he uses that scale like an idiot). Everyone has a different way of managing their weight once they get to where they want to be.

    For my part, I know how I need to eat each day, and I like moving about and being active. So, i don't count calories, and I don't worry about whether or not I'm getting enough exercise. Once a month, I measure my waist to make sure that it's the measurement that I want (26-28 inches). I know, then, that my body fat percentage is between 18-20%, and I'm happy with that. Sometimes (perhaps once a quarter), I'll use calipers to determine my body fat percentage.

    This is just to give myself a guideline -- sot hat I know that I'm maintaining and not deluding myself, you know?

    I gained weight (due to health problem) when I was 20. I lost that weight when I was 22. I gained some weight back when I was 27 or 28 -- which was due largely to a change in my exercise habits (I went from vegan triathlete to vegetarian hot yoga practice to vegetarian regular yoga practice with some upset-ness/emotional eating). I then lost some of that weight after I was pregnant with my son, and now I'm back at the weight that I was when I was in high school and started university. I turn 36 in July.

    I can't guarantee that I"ll never gain weight again. Who knows? But, I have the skills that I need to maintain the weight that I want, and I'm not obsessing about food, exercise, or anything else. I'm just living well and happily, and i know when I need to reign things in (emotional eating, for example).

    So, there it is.

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