Marks Reference-Dr. Castelli(Framingham Study) doesn't eat any fatty foods! page 2

[Knifegill]

Too much research shows the dangerous effects of soy consumption. I found those articles myself. No sane person would eat concentrated soy on purpose. Especially someone who pretends to understand food.

I am no zombie, and I do not agree with everything Mark says. I also do not agree with everything Mr. Soy says. So I see what you mean, he might have some good points worthy of redemption. But the problem is that soy is SO, SO terrible for both the environment and the human body, it basically makes me want to kick the man in the nuts for supporting deforestation of the Amazon alone. Fish and other creatures are going extinct at an astronomical rate so vegan a**hats can grow their fake food. Not to mention what soy does to the human thyroid. You'd have to have your head buried DEEP in the sand to think it's okay to purchase or consume soy, and that alone is cause to cast doubt on anything else the silly goose says.

[Winterbike]

I work with doctors and health researchers every day, some of them world renowned. Most of them are fat and out of shape. The star of the show, the guy who gets the most funding and does the coolest studies, is pre-diabetic at about 45 years old (and has a very noticeable beer belly). Some of the guys here working on cancer SMOKE during their breaks. Health researchers are the last people I'll take nutrition advice from.

[magicmerl]

Ok. I read many of Marks Posts on here, where he will easily discount some research for one reason or another, (skewed, Flawed, need more evidence). But should we not look at Marks own research in this very same light, especially when one of his few key pieces of evidence cited in his books and Blog, are clearly not on the same page as mark, and not entirely supporting what Mark is advocating.

You're right. When we make an arguement and the things we base our arguement on are flawed, that undermines it. Just see Denise Minger's rebuttal of The China Study (cited by vegetarians).

Or do we only trust a person and their research, (such as with trusting what Dr Castelli says), when it is convenient to do so, but if they go against us or have changed their opinion based upon research then they must be an idiot, or have joined the dark side or axis of evil, or have been bought out. Mark and his Followers trusted that Castelli's research was sound and factual, Enough so that its quoted in Marks book, when it backed up Marks Points, But now that it seems that the Dr. is not backing up marks points oh and because he eats soy, hes not trustworthy? He's the same trustworthy person, who has been researching this very subject for at least 45 years. I tend to think that mark was right in taking a serious look at his research in the first place. 45 years is not to be dismissed so easily.

It depends on the research. Does it stand the test of time? Can you drill into the study? Was it an observational study etc etc.

I appreciate the responses here, and will continue to search out the truth. I see that many folks are doing that here, but I see many that are not. I'm choosing to do research first and form an opinion based on the research, not the opposite, Form an opinion, and find research to support my opinion.
Read the evidence people and make your own judgments.

Tom

Completely agree.

When I first started reading I was like 'carbs are THE DEVIL, we can live without them'. But now I regard them as a normal macronutrient. If you're going to be overly simplistic, this is ,my paradigm:
Bad foods:
- Cereals (particularly wheat)
- Sugar
- PUFAs (margarine and seed oils)
Good foods:
+ Meat (particularly red meat, yay for cow-pooling)
+ Veges (sulfoids, colours, leafy greens)
+ Saturated fats (Butter and Lard)

[TomC]

I work with doctors and health researchers every day, some of them world renowned. Most of them are fat and out of shape. The star of the show, the guy who gets the most funding and does the coolest studies, is pre-diabetic at about 45 years old (and has a very noticeable beer belly). Some of the guys here working on cancer SMOKE during their breaks. Health researchers are the last people I'll take nutrition advice from.

This is a good point, and I certainly have first hand experience with what your referring to here. I'm know not all doctors are models, however I doubt these doctors would be advocating their own poor diets, lack of excercise and smoking habits for their patients. However, weather he is right or wrong, I think the Dr. Castelli is advocating a diet he himself is following, a diet which he believes is the healthiest based upon his 45 years research.

Thanks for all your input. I will be continuing my research though, and am certainly taking this all into consideration.

Tom

[allison223]

Tom, I am very interested to see what you come up with through your research. I have very bad heart history in my family, on both sides, and it scares the crap out of me. While I LOVE being told I can eat bacon and butter, this is not a joke to me, I need to feel like I am 100% doing the right thing for my heart health.

[onalark]

Tom, I am very interested to see what you come up with through your research. I have very bad heart history in my family, on both sides, and it scares the crap out of me. While I LOVE being told I can eat bacon and butter, this is not a joke to me, I need to feel like I am 100% doing the right thing for my heart health.

Have you considered doing some before and after blood tests? If you're really, really serious, that's what I suggest you do.

I did this. My family has a history of high cholesterol. My dad had a heart attack at 50ish. He's also a cardiologist. Yeah, really.

Believe me, I worried. Blood tests before primal: high cholesterol, high triglycerides, pre-diabetic, nothing that looked promising. Blood tests after 3 months of primal: low triglycerides, high HDL, and totally normal blood sugar.

I really recommend doing exactly that if you're serious about this not being a joke to you. The blood tests aren't super expensive, and if it's what you need to know you're doing the right thing, I say go for it.

As an aside, my husband's LDL cholesterol couldn't even be calculated pre-primal. We've now seen a reverse in that. We're still working on getting his bloodwork in shape, but I suspect next time he goes in to test, he'll be in normal ranges, too.

[TomC]

Hey Steph, This is exactly what I'm Doing. I just received my paperwork to go get a blood test. I've been on the diet for close to 3 months now so it should give me a good baseline. Unfortunately I don't have a test from immediately before, but I did get one last year, and I can assume that that is about average for me since my diet has been the same for quite a while before I started primal.

[allison223]

Have you considered doing some before and after blood tests? If you're really, really serious, that's what I suggest you do.

I did this. My family has a history of high cholesterol. My dad had a heart attack at 50ish. He's also a cardiologist. Yeah, really.

Believe me, I worried. Blood tests before primal: high cholesterol, high triglycerides, pre-diabetic, nothing that looked promising. Blood tests after 3 months of primal: low triglycerides, high HDL, and totally normal blood sugar.

I really recommend doing exactly that if you're serious about this not being a joke to you. The blood tests aren't super expensive, and if it's what you need to know you're doing the right thing, I say go for it.

As an aside, my husband's LDL cholesterol couldn't even be calculated pre-primal. We've now seen a reverse in that. We're still working on getting his bloodwork in shape, but I suspect next time he goes in to test, he'll be in normal ranges, too.

I've been thinking of getting some blood work done, however, I'm not sure I agree that cholesterol is a good marker for heart health having read the WAPF research on the matter.

[Sabine]

In addition, I don't think the disappearance of fat deposits in autopsy results from Belgium in 1942 can be counted on. As I recall, they were sort of busy right then. LOTS of confounding variables, not just the presence or absence of meat.

[onalark]

I've been thinking of getting some blood work done, however, I'm not sure I agree that cholesterol is a good marker for heart health having read the WAPF research on the matter.

There are other markers to track, such as A1C and c-reactive protein. You can also check levels on things like iron, B12, Vitamin D....

My fasting blood sugar pre-paleo put me in the pre-diabetic ranges. I no longer have this issue. And, of course, there is the weight loss. And the inevitable weight gain when I stop eating paleo.