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Thread: Low Carbs =T3 Reversal AKA: halts your metabolism? What is the dang truth?? page

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    mwaterman65's Avatar
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    Unhappy Low Carbs =T3 Reversal AKA: halts your metabolism? What is the dang truth??

    Primal Fuel
    I am directly posing this question to you all so I can answer Michelle LeSueur https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miche...t/365119622485. This "expert's" 100% assertion that "carb intake under 100 grams will stop your metabolism dead in it's tracks" is causing me extreme pause. I'm new to Primal Living....and this is the constant argument I hear waged against this {Primal} way of life. She just posted this today on Facebook, and I HAD to get a clear answer, as I keep hearing this argument and have no way of disputing it.

    Here is her post: 5-3-12

    "THIS IS FOR MY FITNESS FRIENDS! If you drop your carbs below 100 grams you cause your T-3 to reverse. THIS IS YOUR METABOLISM!!! You burn less calories, have less energy and the list goes on. You need some carbs in your diet!!!"

    Holy COW. That's...uh....a little strong. Just a few days ago, I received the "21 day Total Body Transformation" book. I'm trying to get my head around all the concepts, and am liking what I'm reading. Except comments like the one above are nagging my brain......it's the same thing we've been programmed.....gotta have carbs over 100 grams, or your metabolism will just be trashed....yadda, yadda.

    Here is my reply to this woman's post {as mentioned above} on FB:
    "This statement is in direct opposition to what Mark Sisson aka: Primal/Paleo eating says. Thousands of people are eating this way - ie: low carbs - including working out hard, and having great success. I hate the way all the "Guru's" say something 100% different than the other guru, and makes the rest of us 100% confused."

    Here is her reply:
    "Michelle Waterman, Dr. Brady ND, DC, CCN, DACBN quoted a study by LoPresti and Nicoloff stated this in Functional endocrinology thyroid and adrenal disorders I attended. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I would think that he would be much more educated in this field than someone promoting a program. He is one of the most brilliant Dr. I have ever met and I don't impress easily. Just going back to the study and also the kind of training people have give them different info. I see people all the time that have different info than me because their training is different. Even on a paleo diet you can eat things to keep your carbs up to stay with in the structure you are trying to follow. Anita Fehr On carb cycling, I don't mind when you are doing short term, maybe 3-4 weeks, but not a lifestyle. That also depends on how low you are going on carbs. 80 you could go a little longer but lower than that, no......that is still hurting you."

    CAN ANYONE ADDRESS THIS ARGUMENT? I truly am more confused than ever about all of these "studies" and "experts" saying the exact opposite of each other. I think for a regime to be 100% successful, then one has to believe in it 100%. Agreed? I so much want to believe in the Primal/Paleo way of life.....but I keep getting flak from everyone I mention the premise to. How do I come to the belief that is is all normal and healthy? Anyone? Anyone?

  2. #2
    paleo-bunny's Avatar
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    You don't have to eat low carb to eat primally. Many forum members are eating moderate carbs in the range 100-200 g a day, or even higher if they are muscular men who are very active.

    I've lost a lot of weight eating around 150-180 g carbs a day. That's because I've been very active. Mark recommends adding in more starch in line with glycogen burned during exercise for active people. However, a lot of people miss this point when they read PB.

    I've gained a lot of muscle in the process. I've recently increased carbs to about 200 g a day and can feel my metabolism increasing. I'm still going into ketosis some days. I can lift heavier, and I have more energy.

    Low carb is useful for those who are insulin resistant, for resetting leptin, and for kick-starting weight loss.

    I believe that Michelle Waterman is correct about chronic low-carb dieting suppressing thyroid function, especially in women. One confounding factor is if they are chronically cutting overall calorie intake, as that's also known to suppress thyroid function and BMR.
    Last edited by paleo-bunny; 05-04-2012 at 03:50 AM. Reason: ETA
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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    bumblebee's Avatar
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    I also happened to read the samething you posted just yesterday on facebook. If it's ok, I'm re-posting part of your conversation (just cleaning it up a little and differintiate between the two Michelles)

    Michelle LeSueur: If you drop your carbs below 100 grams you cause your T-3 to reverse. THIS IS YOUR METABOLISM!!! You burn less calories, have less energy and the list goes on. You need some carbs in your diet!!!

    Michelle Waterman: This statement is in direct opposition to what Mark Sisson aka: Primal/Paleo eating says. Thousands of people are eating this way - ie: low carbs - including working out hard, and having great success. I hate the way all the "Guru's" say something 100% different than the other guru, and makes the rest of us 100% confused.

    Michelle LeSueur: Dr. Brady ND, DC, CCN, DACBN quoted a study by LoPresti and Nicoloff stated this in Functional endocrinology thyroid and adrenal disorders I attended. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I would think that he would be much more educated in this field than someone promoting a program. He is one of the most brilliant Dr. I have ever met and I don't impress easily. Just going back to the study and also the kind of training people have give them different info. I see people all the time that have different info than me because their training is different. Even on a paleo diet you can eat things to keep your carbs up to stay with in the structure you are trying to follow. Anita Fehr On carb cycling, I don't mind when you are doing short term, maybe 3-4 weeks, but not a lifestyle. That also depends on how low you are going on carbs. 80 you could go a little longer but lower than that, no that is still hurting you.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...50798017922486
    Are thyroid issued very common among paleo eaters? I'm asking because I see this subject brought up too often here and other paloe web sites.

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    I just saw your conversation over on facebook with Michelle LeSeuer. I was on the keto diet for a year and recently switched to paleo. I'm basically eating the same as on the keto diet, except that now I've been excluding grains, legumes, dairy, and vegetable oils. When I was doing keto I would drink a protein shake every time after working out, which contains a mixture of whey and soy. Now that I'm doing paleo I've been eating a sweet potato or a banana after I exercise, but my carb intake hasn't gone up much (my total is around 65g a day)

    Are thyroid issued very common among paleo eaters? I'm asking because I see this subject brought up too often here and other paloe web sites.

    Michelle LeSueur: If you drop your carbs below 100 grams you cause your T-3 to reverse. THIS IS YOUR METABOLISM!!! You burn less calories, have less energy and the list goes on. You need some carbs in your diet!!!

    Michelle Waterman: This statement is in direct opposition to what Mark Sisson aka: Primal/Paleo eating says. Thousands of people are eating this way - ie: low carbs - including working out hard, and having great success. I hate the way all the "Guru's" say something 100% different than the other guru, and makes the rest of us 100% confused.

    Michelle LeSueur: Dr. Brady ND, DC, CCN, DACBN quoted a study by LoPresti and Nicoloff stated this in Functional endocrinology thyroid and adrenal disorders I attended. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I would think that he would be much more educated in this field than someone promoting a program. He is one of the most brilliant Dr. I have ever met and I don't impress easily. Just going back to the study and also the kind of training people have give them different info. I see people all the time that have different info than me because their training is different. Even on a paleo diet you can eat things to keep your carbs up to stay with in the structure you are trying to follow. Anita Fehr On carb cycling, I don't mind when you are doing short term, maybe 3-4 weeks, but not a lifestyle. That also depends on how low you are going on carbs. 80 you could go a little longer but lower than that, no that is still hurting you.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...50798017922486

  5. #5
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    I believe we are observing that for most people, long term vlc eating does not result in a happy energised exsistance. Do you lose weight? YOU BET! Do you continue to feel like you can lift heavy things, sprint and climb and be happy? Not for many people. But I would place this more in the below 50g range, not below 100g. Once someone is healthy, active and at their optimal weight and strength, they seem to need more carbs to continue to be healthy and active. Obviously there are some people out there who love their VLC diet, but more and more posters who have been around for a few years are loving their sweet potatoes etc.
    The more I see the less I know for sure.
    -John Lennon

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    Sorry... I just CANNOT get on board with anything that says you "have to" eat "x amount" of a thing every single day. I'm sorry, but B-O-L-O-G-N-A. There is no way that that one number is perfectly accurate for every person... from 5' to 6'5"... 90lbs to 250lbs (whatever)... low activity to serious high athlete level activity.

    Some days I eat carbs, some days I just don't want them at all.
    For instance tonight I fixed steaks, steamed brussels sprouts, and sweet potatoes for the husband and myself.
    He at his... I took one bite of my sweet potato and knew I wasn't going to eat it today. I didn't want it at all. The steak was good, and I ate a big pile of sprouts... but the sweet potato was not appealing at all today. And I'm not going to force myself to eat something that my body is so obviously saying "no" to. So, in the refrigerator it went... maybe tomorrow or the next day. *shrug*
    I expect this may be because I had some garlic and herb rice tossed in with some steamed mixed vegetables that included carrot last night and a banana this morning because I was heading to a doctors appointment and needed something on my stomach for the procedure. If my body doesn't want it... why eat it? I think that forcing food in just to meet some arbitrary number is silly.

    Some days I have more carbs and others no starchy veg or fruit at all, some days more veg than anything else, other days more meat and fat... I'm sure it balances out. Learn to listen. My body said "no thank you" and I listened.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


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    The easiest way to increase your metabolism is to simply eat more. Those who claim carbs fixed their T3 problem have the confounding variables of increasing energy input in the form of carbs. Was it more energy in or was it more carbs? Would you have the same effect on T3 by eating more fats and proteins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
    Are thyroid issued very common among paleo eaters? I'm asking because I see this subject brought up too often here and other paloe web sites.
    Yes. The most common cause of hypothyroidism is an autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Paleo/primal eating helps many people with autoimmune conditions. I know it's helped me more than the replacement thyroid hormone I take.

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    If you exercise a lot, you can probably benefit from more carbs. Any glycolytically demanding activities are going to require you to refuel, and that's where the sweet potatoes, yams, and other "safe starches" come in.

    If you're sedentary, you are probably better off with fewer carbs. The ones you get from veggies and the occasional fruit are likely more than enough.

    If you've got a pre-existing thyroid condition (or any autoimmune issues), a paleo diet is probably going to help because you're eliminating some of the most reactive foods out there (grains, dairy, legumes).

    As someone with an autoimmune condition who has felt better since ditching grains, legumes, and dairy that isn't raw or fermented, I recommend a paleo diet to anyone with an autoimmune condition who a) asks and b) is struggling to keep their symptoms in check. And as someone losing weight, I have to say I never felt more energized than when I dropped massive quantities of carbs and started getting the majority of my calories from protein and fat.

    At this point, I could give a fig what some fitness or nutrition "expert" says. I listened to plenty of "experts" for years, and all it got me was fat, tired, and a dead thyroid. I tried paleo for 30 days, it worked, my blood tests came back better, I lost some weight, done deal. It did not "stop my metabolism". I was not tired or constantly hungry anymore.

    You know what stops your metabolism? Starvation mode. You know how you get in starvation mode? Either you eat too few calories (guilty) or you over-exercise yourself into total exhaustion (also guilty).

    30 days will not kill you. Give it a go. See if it works for you. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onalark View Post
    If you exercise a lot, you can probably benefit from more carbs. Any glycolytically demanding activities are going to require you to refuel, and that's where the sweet potatoes, yams, and other "safe starches" come in.
    Any glycolytically demanding activities would be better fueled by beta-oxidation and fatty acids. The end product of both glycolysis and beta-oxidation is ATP for the mitochondra.

    Mitochondrial β-Oxidation Reactions
    The oxidation of fatty acids yields significantly more energy per carbon atom than does the oxidation of carbohydrates. The net result of the oxidation of one mole of oleic acid (an 18-carbon fatty acid) will be 146 moles of ATP (2 mole equivalents are used during the activation of the fatty acid), as compared with 114 moles from an equivalent number of glucose carbon atoms.
    Last edited by js290; 05-07-2012 at 11:42 PM.

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