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Thread: Political & socio-economic nerd-rage thread. page 51

  1. #501
    Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    The European Union will break apart, and the United States will break apart.
    Maybe the EU, doubtful the US. They're completely different structures.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Maybe the EU, doubtful the US. They're completely different structures.
    Actually, I think it's fairly inarguable that the US hegmony is in decline currently. The parallel I would draw is to the roman empire circa 100CE.
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  3. #503
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    Many people dislike philanthropy for a very good reason -it's immoral.
    A robber who grabs a purse of an elderly woman, steals $1000 dollars and give her one penny ("You can have it grandma) is called a criminal and sent to prison ... in spite of his "generosity."
    A robber who exploits thousands, destroys their health, their families and communities, then drops a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of stolen money to his victims ("You despicable subhumans can have it") is called a saint.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Actually, I think it's fairly inarguable that the US hegmony is in decline currently. The parallel I would draw is to the roman empire circa 100CE.
    Well that wasn't what was said. I don't know if US hegemony is in decline. I'm not sure I care.

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    With those points you're barking up the wrong tree with me. I don't like classes or philanthropy.
    You don't get to a choice since class hierarchy is also the default of human nature....much as it is the same for all other pack animals. Wolves have a class structure and so do chimps. So it doesn't matter which social-economic structure you try to institute you will see a social class structure emerge. So then the question becomes: Which social-economic structure best allows for class migration. That's what the Founding Fathers attempted to put into place with it's Rights and Checks and Balances. Drawing from historic references of political philosophies, these guys had their thinking caps on when they developed the American system of government. But the power elite and self interest have been trying to mess it up ever since.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. It's actually a fair point. And I'm not sure of the answer. I think collective enterprises like Social Security and single-payer work well. Some social compact is needed. I wouldn't want to live in a society that didn't have one.
    Well, then I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this but your going to get to live in just such a system. Everybody talks about the 16 trillion in debt. Social security and medicare to the baby boomer is a net present value of at least $104 trillion.

    Speeches by Richard W. Fisher - Dallas Fed
    “We cannot count forever on the largess or the misfortune of others to mask our own imbalances here at home—for fiscal profligacy in Washington today hinders our ability to address fiscal challenges tomorrow.”
    “These challenges are coming. Off balance sheet, there lie two massive, unfunded liabilities not accounted for in the "conventional budget accounting" of the federal government—most significantly, Social Security and the government obligations of current Medicare programs.”
    “Pundits and analysts like to focus on the year in which Social Security will go permanently into the red on an annual cash flow basis—which recently was projected to occur in 2019 but could occur as early as 2016. But they largely ignore the severity of the broader problem: accumulated entitlement debt over the infinite horizon. According to our calculations at the Dallas Fed, that unfunded debt of Social Security and Medicare combined has now reached $104 trillion—trillion with a 'T'—in discounted present value. And while much attention in recent years has been devoted to Social Security, the lion's share of the total entitlement shortfall (nearly $90 trillion) actually comes from Medicare. This is a prodigious number. Others—like Pete Peterson's foundation, which uses a different time horizon in its methodology—calculate the unfunded liability at north of $40 trillion, growing by a sum of $2 trillion to $3 trillion per year. No matter. The problem is frightful, whether you take his numbers or ours.” - Richard W. Fisher, Dallas Federal Reserve.

    Right now you have cities declaring bankruptcy with interest rates a effectively 0%. Once interest rates rise (the market will push it up) you can expect to see a lot more cities go under. There's even been talk of cities dropping their charter. The money to pay the pensions simply doesn't exist. And with all the talk about growing the economy (which I no longer believe is possible due to industrial commodity squeeze) we'll never grow the economy enough to meet that $104T.

    Let's take China, they have a population est. of 1.3 billion to 1.6 billion. That's an est. rang of 300 million people. The US total population is just over 300 million. IOW the US population is a rounding error for China's population...and they want to develop a middle class at least similar to Europe. I can't see it happening. There isn't enough oil, copper, etc. to allow that kind of sustained growth. And I'm not even including India or the Middle East. And Washington special interest are rocking along as if there is no day of reckoning. Like Dr. Michael Burry Dr. Michael J. Burry at UCLA Economics Commencement 2012 - YouTube , I'm expecting a major downturn (to put it mildly) in the economy.

    Just because someone wants social programs, and in fact entitle to them, because they paid into those programs doesn't mean the funds are going to be there when the time comes to collect. You give money to a broker and he loses or the market crashes the investment is gone. So much for collective enterprises like Social Security. Has rioting helped Greece's economy. It won't here either.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I can envision a world where the class structure is much tighter.

    In this world, charity is what often keeps people alive. But in an ideal one we wouldn't need it. It puts people on an unequal footing.
    You're an idealist, not a realist. The world you envision requires something unnatural to human nature, (near) perfect altruism.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    Many people dislike philanthropy for a very good reason -it's immoral.
    A robber who grabs a purse of an elderly woman, steals $1000 dollars and give her one penny ("You can have it grandma) is called a criminal and sent to prison ... in spite of his "generosity."
    A robber who exploits thousands, destroys their health, their families and communities, then drops a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of stolen money to his victims ("You despicable subhumans can have it") is called a saint.
    Philanthropy isn't immoral if the money given was earned morally. Bill Gates revolutionized the way we live...and made a lot of money do so. Is his philanthropy immoral? Bill Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    How is your description of philanthropy any different then the government taking and giving to someone else.
    " a politician who exploits thousands, destroys their health (FDA guidelines), their families and communities, then drops a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of taxed money to his constituents is called a saint."
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    The "revolutionaries" who enslaved other people?
    The Civil War wasn't about slavery. Lincoln was perhaps the most racist president in US history. Anyone who has studied Lincoln will know that. Lincoln actually wanted to gather up all the blacks and ship them off to another country. When Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, it didn't actually free any slaves at all. It only declared slaves to be free in territories in which it could not be enforced. In the territories in which the Union army had conquered and controlled, the Emancipation Proclamation actually declared that slaves would have to remain slaves in those territories!!!

    Lincoln wanted to tax the hell out of the South and the war was all about keeping the South in the Union so they would be forced to pay the tariff of abominations which benefited the North. Lincoln also wanted to implement Hamiltonian's system where a King ruled the country over his entire life time, and a system with a central bank and fascism for big business with high tariffs. That is what the Whig party was about. It was so unpopular that people like Lincoln and Clay had to invent the Republican party.

    Yes, we got rid of slavery in the end which is good, but the price we paid for it was to enslave the entire nation under a federal tyranny. Slavery was abolished everywhere else around the world peacefully, and it would have been abolished in the US peacefully as well. You simply get more productivity out of paid workers than you do out of forced labor.

    Despite the Civil War, you are still a slave today. You are enslaved to the banker who print the worthless money you make. You are forced at gunpoint to hand over the wealth your earn to your slave masters in Congress. All this tyranny can be traced back to Lincoln and the power grab he made and the way he changed the power structure in this country.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Despite the Civil War, you are still a slave today. You are enslaved to the banker who print the worthless money you make. You are forced at gunpoint to hand over the wealth your earn to your slave masters in Congress. All this tyranny can be traced back to Lincoln and the power grab he made and the way he changed the power structure in this country.
    And does your fictional reinterpretation of the american civil war explain why other people in other countries are slaves too? I can only presume that Lincoln do the dirty on them too, or else via some amazing coincidence they all became wage slaves through a series of unlikely conspiracies?

    Or perhaps you are making claims that have no basis in reality.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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