Political & socio-economic nerd-rage thread. page 50

[Grok]

respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours

This is the foundation of Stefan Molyneux's "against me" argument.

Basically it rejects the idea of the state and the use of force to collect taxes. If you respect my view, then you will respect that I do not pay any taxes at all and you don't have to put a gun to my head and steal my money in order to fund even more violence coming from the state.

[Rojo]

Just because that maybe/is the default doesn't mean it'll translate to a larger social structure.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. It's actually a fair point. And I'm not sure of the answer. I think collective enterprises like Social Security and single-payer work well. Some social compact is needed. I wouldn't want to live in a society that didn't have one.

[Grok]

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. It's actually a fair point. And I'm not sure of the answer. I think collective enterprises like Social Security and single-payer work well. Some social compact is needed. I wouldn't want to live in a society that didn't have one.

I didn't sign any social contract.

[carlh]

Not in response to any particular comments but to a couple broad feelings I'm seeing. If you're a US citizen, you are subject to US laws. Just to throw that out there. All of them. Including being subject to tax, etc.

14th Amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

[MrsToon]

Rojo, when you say you "don't like classes or philanthropy," can I assume you envision a world where nobody is any richer or poorer than anybody else, we all live under the exact same standards and conditions? Why don't you like philanthropy, which I assume to mean charitable donations from individuals?

[Grok]

Not in response to any particular comments but to a couple broad feelings I'm seeing. If you're a US citizen, you are subject to US laws. Just to throw that out there. All of them. Including being subject to tax, etc.

14th Amendment.

Yes, the Civil War is what changed this country from the States having more power than the Feds, to the Feds having more power than the States.

In other words, the government went back to war against the revolutionaries to reconquer them.

Now, 150 or so years later, the states will secede again.

This crisis that is unfolding in Europe is just the beginning, wait until it spreads to the US, which it will.

The age of austerity is looming large.

The European Union will break apart, and the United States will break apart.

That is how serious things are.

May you live in interesting times.

[Grok]

Cash-Strapped French Socialists Face Reality of Austerity - EU Business News - CNBC

[Rojo]

Rojo, when you say you "don't like classes or philanthropy," can I assume you envision a world where nobody is any richer or poorer than anybody else, we all live under the exact same standards and conditions?

I can envision a world where the class structure is much tighter.

Why don't you like philanthropy, which I assume to mean charitable donations from individuals?

In this world, charity is what often keeps people alive. But in an ideal one we wouldn't need it. It puts people on an unequal footing.

[Rojo]

I didn't sign any social contract.

You didn't sign the Constitution either.

[Rojo]

In other words, the government went back to war against the revolutionaries to reconquer them.

The "revolutionaries" who enslaved other people?