Political & socio-economic nerd-rage thread. page 5

[Alex Good]

Also smurf society only worked because papa smurf was their benevolent leader. He butt raped them whenever they disobeyed. That's why smurfette kept disobeying.

[magicmerl]

They were mostly free of government intervention, yes.

I wonder where the land came from? Lucky the government herded the indians into reservations, I guess.

The poor would go to churches or hospitals. There were doctors who would take care of the sick and the poor paid them back as well as they could. It's called having a sense of community and having love and respect for one another.

Churches and hospitals? How can they exist without collective effort? How did the doctors get their education?

A doctor's visit before statist intervention was extremely affordable, insurance was even cheaper.

And if you needed a loan, the interest rate was 40%.

With all the statist intervention we have today, the doctors and hospitals and insurance companies are robbing you all blind. It's legalized plunder. The insurance companies actually want to use the force of the state to force you to buy their products.

Actually, that's a failure of CAPITALSIM, not socialism. The for-profit motive for companies conflicts with the 'get well and live in my own house' ethos of those people fortunate enough to be 'customers'.

Could you imagine Monsanto using the government to force you to buy GMO corn because the FDA says it's healthier for you and we need to cut down on healthcare costs? If the government can force you to buy health insurance from corporation X, they can force you to buy GMO corn from corporation Y.

Look, I totally agree that where free market principles are applicable, government intervention should be minimal. I just don't think that free market principles apply to things like healthcare, education, social welfare, libraries etc.

I read somewhere that smurfs were socialists.

Judging by the picture you are painting of the idyllic wild west, I would have thought you would have claimed the smurfs as anarchists. Certainly they are opposed to the oppressive statist machinations of Gargamel.

[Grok]

I wonder where the land came from? Lucky the government herded the indians into reservations, I guess.

The land didn't come from government, the Indians can tell you that.

Are you saying you are okay with government slaughtering Indians and Muslims just so long as you get your free healthcare? Because that's sure what it sounds like to me.

[Grok]

Judging by the picture you are painting of the idyllic wild west, I would have thought you would have claimed the smurfs as anarchists. Certainly they are opposed to the oppressive statist machinations of Gargamel.

I have to be honest, I've never watched a single episode of the Smurfs. I tried once when I was a kid, but I couldn't stand watching it for more than a couple of minutes.

[magicmerl]

The land didn't come from government, the Indians can tell you that.

Are you saying you are okay with government slaughtering Indians and Muslims just so long as you get your free healthcare? Because that's sure what it sounds like to me.

Nope. I'm just pointing out that the 'wild west' existed because the settlers kinda killed the indians and took the land.

Seems like a reasonably good metaphor for anarchy, I guess.

[Alex Good]

I have to be honest, I've never watched a single episode of the Smurfs. I tried once when I was a kid, but I couldn't stand watching it for more than a couple of minutes.

+100. It needed more violence.

[Grok]

Look, I totally agree that where free market principles are applicable, government intervention should be minimal. I just don't think that free market principles apply to things like healthcare, education, social welfare, libraries etc.

I have an idea. We could have a government run hospital and privately run hospitals, and those who want to use the government ones can be taxed for it.

I wonder why that wouldn't work? Maybe because nobody would pay for the crappy government run healthcare? Nah, that couldn't be it.

I hear Chavez had to fly to another country to get his cancer treated, I guess the government healthcare in Venezuela just wasn't good enough for him.

[Grok]

Nope. I'm just pointing out that the 'wild west' existed because the settlers kinda killed the indians and took the land.

Seems like a reasonably good metaphor for anarchy, I guess.

No, the settlers didn't do that. It was the generals of the Union army during the Civil war like General Sherman who slaughtered the Indians just like they slaughtered American southerners. Grant used Sherman to protect the railroad builders (which was heavily subsidized by government at the time) by slaughtering the Indians.

The settlers who couldn't use the force and might of government actually negotiated and traded with the Indians.

[Grok]

How did the doctors get their education?

Before I explain how it is possible to educate a person without government, would you like to try explaining to me why government force is needed to educate someone?

Are you saying President Lincoln was an idiot because there was no public education before his Presidency? How did he become a lawyer without the state?

[Alex Good]

I would imagine that people actually sought out knowledge of their own free will before the school system cured them of that urge.