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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    My experience is similar to Choco's, despite the fact that I am a woman in my 30s who has been overweight (but not obese). I managed some initial weight loss of about 15 pounds on low carb (and VLC for a couple of months but never saw the wonderful adaptation others describe and always felt like crap). I didn't see any further results until I ended up living in a university residence last year with no proper kitchen, so I ended up eating more carbs because they were easier to deal with, and I came home from that experience lighter and leaner than when I left despite being less active because I wasn't doing CrossFit while I was there. I kept the carbs in my diet and have since lost more weight and have seen significant shifts in body composition. For me, carbs made me feel more satisfied, and I wasn't fighting with VLC-induced fog that was hampering my academic performance and my athletic progress.

    I think VLC can work for some people because of the satiety factor, but it's not great for me. I maintain metabolic flexibility through IF and intuitive calorie cycling (hungrier on workout days and pre-menstrually, less hungry on rest days and early in my cycle...sorry dudes if this bothers you!). This keeps me much happier than I was on VLC without losing the ability to fast when needed.
    That's really interesting. There's a hypothalamus theory of obesity that in a nutshell goes like so:
    If the hypothalamus is deficient in leptin, it directs the body to grows more subcutaneous fat.

    If it is deficient in insulin, it directs the body to grow more intra-abdominal fat.
    His prescription is based on whether your issues are leptin or insulin-based. Both kinds should reduce bad fats and sugars, the usual industrial food suspects. If your problem is leptin-based then you will do better to focus efforts on reducing triglycerides, which of course a low carb diet does very well. If your problem is insulin-based, then you will do better on a diet that reduces inflammation. I don't know how right his theory or prescriptions are, but it could explain why some people really need to reduce all sources of carbohydrate, at least for a while, and especially fruit, and why others do well just cutting out bad oils and other inflammatory industrial foods.

    Obesity starts in the brain*/* Getting Stronger
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 195 x 3

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Well, I've lost even more since then after getting back to CrossFit, so I doubt it was a reduction in cortisol that did it (plus I was at the uni working on a major research project, which causes stress all on its own).
    FWIW, adrenal gland and cortisol...

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by js290 View Post
    Six months before you actually started lifting much heavier, but you're certain it's the carbs?
    If you are an athlete practicing a sport based upon short, explosive movements then CHO intake should be higher than the typical primal recommendations.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    If you are an athlete practicing a sport based upon short, explosive movements then CHO intake should be higher than the typical primal recommendations.
    Except that explosive movements, like plyometrics, end up being performed -- paradoxically enough -- by aerobically capable muscles (type I or IIa), particularly in well trained athletes (that's what training does, makes the athlete more efficient). The aerobically capable muscles can burn either fatty acids or glucose. And, since fatty acids provide more ATP than glucose (per carbon atom), then it necessarily follows that aerobic performance would improve metabolising fat rather than glucose.

    Now, if you're talking about the anaerobic type IIb fibers, despite their "fast twitch" name, they do their best work on slow contractions which provide the most strength. Good luck working those out more than once or twice a week. They burn out fast and replenish slowly. Because they are anaerobic, they burn locally stored glucose (glycogen) not the glucose floating around in your blood.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by js290 View Post
    First of all, lol@Mercola as a source for good science.

    Secondly, my reading into sports medicine shows that people who train more often recover better, not worse, and that good nutritional support improves recovery time. I'm familiar with the warning signs for overtraining and make sure to do things like check my morning resting heart rate regularly--one early indicator of overtraining is a rise in morning RHR. I make sure to take days off training when I am sick or overtired. I also don't go hard for every WOD, and I go to a gym that doesn't program long, hard metcons every single day and takes time for skill building.

    McGuff also only accounts for the stress-inducing aspects of exercise and ignores the stress-relieving properties of regular physical activity. There's significant evidence in the psych literature that shows major mental health benefits to frequent exercise. This can balance out the increased stress from the exercise itself, particularly for people who lead high stress lives.

    Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove since I've seen continued fat loss since returning to regular CF, which would contradict your implication that a drop in exercise-related cortisol while I was away was what accounted for my weight loss at that time. If that was the case, returning to CF would have seen me reaching another stall, and yet I'm still losing fat.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    That's really interesting. There's a hypothalamus theory of obesity that in a nutshell goes like so:


    His prescription is based on whether your issues are leptin or insulin-based. Both kinds should reduce bad fats and sugars, the usual industrial food suspects. If your problem is leptin-based then you will do better to focus efforts on reducing triglycerides, which of course a low carb diet does very well. If your problem is insulin-based, then you will do better on a diet that reduces inflammation. I don't know how right his theory or prescriptions are, but it could explain why some people really need to reduce all sources of carbohydrate, at least for a while, and especially fruit, and why others do well just cutting out bad oils and other inflammatory industrial foods.

    Obesity starts in the brain*/* Getting Stronger

    The only question I have there is that I have almost no tendency to store abdominal fat. Fat gains in my midsection tend to be in the lower back, and my stomach stays fairly flat even when I am fatter. If people like me who tend toward subcutaneous fat are the ones who benefit most from low carb, then why was low carb not particularly helpful in my case?

    Of course, I've never been obese, and I think I am fairly metabolically normal even when heavier.
    If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive. --Audre Lorde

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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    First of all, lol@Mercola as a source for good science.
    Genetic fallacy... that's not very scientific... LOL indeed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    McGuff also only accounts for the stress-inducing aspects of exercise and ignores the stress-relieving properties of regular physical activity. There's significant evidence in the psych literature that shows major mental health benefits to frequent exercise. This can balance out the increased stress from the exercise itself, particularly for people who lead high stress lives.
    You must have missed this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQra-ME7vIo#t=1h0m1s

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove since I've seen continued fat loss since returning to regular CF, which would contradict your implication that a drop in exercise-related cortisol while I was away was what accounted for my weight loss at that time. If that was the case, returning to CF would have seen me reaching another stall, and yet I'm still losing fat.
    I'm not convinced you know what your hormonal state was before or after you started getting the results you wanted. It's a post/cum hoc fallacy (thus not particularly scientific) to only attribute your success to increased carb consumption. But, congrats on your success and progress, nevertheless.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    The only question I have there is that I have almost no tendency to store abdominal fat. Fat gains in my midsection tend to be in the lower back, and my stomach stays fairly flat even when I am fatter. If people like me who tend toward subcutaneous fat are the ones who benefit most from low carb, then why was low carb not particularly helpful in my case?

    Of course, I've never been obese, and I think I am fairly metabolically normal even when heavier.
    Yeah, I didn't think his prescriptions based on where fat is stored made a lot of sense. But I thought maybe his idea perhaps exposed there being some unknown reason why some people do well on low carb and others do not.

    In other words, I do not discount that some people will do much better without carb restriction. I think some do well with carb restriction and others don't and I don't think we really understand why. I do not buy it that Chaco's way is the one right way that will work for everyone. I do think that probably most people ought to give low carb a shot and see what happens because it can help you get a handle on how much control you have over your life ('it' being making a change that has a dramatic effect.)
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 195 x 3

  9. #79
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    There's a pretty much complete scientific consensus on where stored body fat is unhealthy ... like it or not.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  10. #80
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    js290, your "die-hard don't eat any glucose, quote the same damn rosedale speech all the time, doug mcguff taught me that fat oxidation produces more ATP than burning glycogen," shtick gets old. pay attention to mcguff, and you'll learn that production of ATP by aerobic oxidation, though it generates more, is a lot slower than anaerobic oxidation. to quote doug mcguff - anaerobic respiration hauls ass.

    if you're any kind of serious athlete, and you do anything more than once a week, i would be impressed if you've made it a long time on a VLC diet. i got about 6 months in doing that, and it was the dumbest crap i ever tried.

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