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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Exactly! So well-said and quoted for truth.

    Primal is at heart a whole-foods diet. We want to eat real, natural foods. Coconut oil, butter, olive oil - there is nothing unhealthy about them in the sense that they are healthy fats, but they are not healthy meals. Yes, butter has vitamin A and K in significant quantities. Yes, coconut oil is nature's best source of MCT's and lauric acid. Yes, olive oil is rich in polyphenols. But they're not FOODS. Nutritionally speaking, whole wheat flour will destroy butter, olive oil and coconut oil per calorie. Consuming oil as food is doing nothing but stalling - or even reversing - your fat loss goals, and butting half a stick of butter in your coffee is like taking a tablespoon to a jar of honey and eating.

    Frying eggs in a teaspoon or two of butter? Great idea. Slicing a sliver of Kerrygold butter off because it's that damn good? I understand. I've done it a couple times! Eating 3 tablespoons of coconut oil a day and putting half a stick of butter in your morning coffee? Terrible idea.
    I agree and I don't consume any oil, but I don't get the correlation to raw honey? Yes, it's better to eat an avocado, an olive, or a whole coconut then their respective oils because the oil is just empty fat calories stripped of most of the micronutrients in the original whole food. But raw honey is the whole food. Yes, it's sugar with no fiber, but that's the way this whole food is made in nature. It can't be put in the same category as oils or even fresh fruit juice (that has been stripped of fiber). However carbs and fructose fit into your diet is up to you, but with raw honey you're getting tons of micronutrients along with your calories...not like oil.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This.

    Coconut oil isn't a whole food. It's a mechanically extracted oil. It's mostly empty, nutritionless calories. Treat it like salt, pepper or honey - it's a cooking tool or a flavoring agent, not a food to be eaten as significant calories. 3 tablespoons of coconut oil amounts to 360 calories. Why not eat 5 eggs for the same caloric intake? You will get two orders of magnitude more nutrition instead of empty fat. Or why not just eat real coconut? That's a step in the right direction. You probably wouldn't take a spoon to a jar of honey, right? So why do it to processed extracted fat? All it's going to do is slow your fat loss since your body now has to burn through 360 more calories before it taps into stored fat, and you're doing it all for next to zero nutrition.
    So now we are back to calories in, calories out, bull shit? Why drag us down like That? Just because you do well on a high carb diet, doesn't mean you should constantly preach against the basic Paleo weight loss diet. You are doing much more harm than good.
    As far as CO is concerned, MCT are to an insulin resistant person as a potato is to you, immediate energy. (CO is 60% MCT. )To a leptin resistant person, any high carb food will trigger hunger and cravings for the rest of the day, or longer.
    Last edited by Greg Rx; 09-25-2013 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rx View Post
    So now we are back to calories in, calories out, bull shit? Why drag us down like That? Just because you do well on a high carb diet, doesn't mean you should constantly preach against the basic Paleo weight loss diet. You are doing much more harm than good.
    As far as CO is concerned, MCT are to an insulin resistant person as a potato is to you, immediate energy. To a leptin resistant person, any high carb food will trigger hunger and cravings for the rest of the day, or longer.
    You can eat still eat high fat, but eat it in it's natural form so you get all the micronutrients along with it. Why eat mostly empty calories? It's like someone who believes they thrive on high carb diet so they supplement with sugar or dextrose or white rice. They believe the rice has valuable glucose that can be used for energy like someone believes coconut oil has valuable MCTs. Eat the whole sweet potato or the whole avocado,etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by healthyeater View Post
    You can eat still eat high fat, but eat it in it's natural form so you get all the micronutrients along with it. Why eat mostly empty calories? It's like someone who believes they thrive on high carb diet so they supplement with sugar or dextrose or white rice. They believe the rice has valuable glucose that can be used for energy like someone believes coconut oil has valuable MCTs. Eat the whole sweet potato or the whole avocado,etc.
    Normally I'd agree, but for an insulin resistant individual, coconut oil is more efficient than other fats as an energy source because of it's high MCT content. MCTs can drastically ease and aid in the production of rapidly utilizable energy for people who need to be (at least temporarily) restricting carbs. So these people are going to be needing lots of coconut or MCT oil to keep their energy up.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

  5. #15
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    Hello, there is no optimal amount because you don't need it.
    However, who are we to say that you can't have it the way you want ? Enjoy it ... while knowing at the same time that it is not needed at all and you really do this for the pleasure you derive from it.

    Damn! it gets very religious around here ...

    PS: if it were me, I would first feed myself with nutritious foods. Then, when done with the meal, I would see if I feel like having this treat ...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rx View Post
    So now we are back to calories in, calories out, bull shit? Why drag us down like That? Just because you do well on a high carb diet, doesn't mean you should constantly preach against the basic Paleo weight loss diet. You are doing much more harm than good.
    As far as CO is concerned, MCT are to an insulin resistant person as a potato is to you, immediate energy. (CO is 60% MCT. )To a leptin resistant person, any high carb food will trigger hunger and cravings for the rest of the day, or longer.
    What are you talking about? CICO is all that matters in terms of weight loss - you can't lose weight without an energy deficit, and as far as the least nutritious diet possible goes, it's hard to find anything less nutritious than isolated fat. Coconut oil is fundamentally on the same footing as white sugar - it is empty calories, pure energy and extremely fattening since it is the most calorie-dense "food" out there. Sure, coconut oil is less fattening than soybean oil due to the composition of its fatty acids, but it's still more fattening than any actual real food. I'm sorry to disturb your happy fantasy that you can eat anything and everything in sight as long as you keep "X macronutrient" low, but it doesn't work that way. If you want to lose weight, you have to consume less energy than you expend.

    If you want the benefits of coconut, I suggest eating actual coconut instead of the isolated oil, or perhaps making Asian-style curries with coconut milk. I have two 54oz jars of virgin coconut oil on my shelf, and it will easily last me into the back half of 2014. It is a cooking tool, not real food meant to be consumed by the spoonful.

    As for my diet, I lift heavy 4 times a week and average around 175g of carbs a day. Is that "high carb"?
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-26-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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    So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

    I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

    This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
    Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
    Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
    Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
    Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
    CW: 158 GW: 130 CBF%: 24.38
    48 - 5'7.5"

    "What a wonderful thought it is that some of the best days of our lives haven't happened yet." ~ A.F.

    "Exercising should be about rewarding the body with endorphins and strength, not about punishing your body for what you've eaten." ~ Unknown

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    I buy these creamed coconut squares which are just ground up dried coconut meat. Like coconut-peanutbutter. The oil and 'dry' matter separate, like in natural peanut butter, and you can chop the coconut oil off and cook with it. The 'dry' matter you can eat like candy. (:
    1 200g blok is like 1 dollar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MsSmith View Post
    So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

    I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

    This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
    There is no benefit. It's this weird "fat is always good" myth that tends to proliferate around here. If you're full eating 927 calories where much of it is refined fat, you'd likely be even fuller on less calories subbing those wasted calories on real food like eggs, steak and potatoes. Certainly you'd be getting a lot more nutrition.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsSmith View Post
    So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

    I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

    This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
    I did some searches and found that it's basically to prolong fasting and promote energy if used in coffee before a workout and pretty much the same thing by itself after a workout.

    I think I'd rather be completely fasted (with coffee only) before my workout, to burn fat stores. After a workout I am usually not hungry for 1-2 hours. I don't see the benefit of adding so many calories and fat before or after a fasting workout. If I am wrong, someone please let me know, ok?
    Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
    Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
    Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
    Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
    CW: 158 GW: 130 CBF%: 24.38
    48 - 5'7.5"

    "What a wonderful thought it is that some of the best days of our lives haven't happened yet." ~ A.F.

    "Exercising should be about rewarding the body with endorphins and strength, not about punishing your body for what you've eaten." ~ Unknown

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