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Thread: I am on a juice fast, taking collagen protein and in ketosis - Question: page 3

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveWeirdo View Post
    I can see how concentrating the nutrients and removing a great deal of fiber would have a super healing effect. I have felt for myself the wonderful difference that lowering fiber intake can have!

    But in doing so you are also concentrating the sugars. I can't help but question the wisdom of taking healthy nutrients along with a huge dose of sugar.
    The biochem of this is too in-depth for this forum, but I have gotten patients off all diabetic medication and balanced blood sugar from juice fasting alone. Manly green juices but there is a fair amount of carrot, beet and apple. I know it sounds crazy with all that sugar but the body just normalizes, I've seen it many times. These are type II diabetics.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    Well, you are actually eating a very high fat calorie restricted diet:

    If your 8.5 lbs. of weight loss was all due to fat loss, then you would be averaging approximately 1 lb. of fat loss per day, or , putting it in other terms, you would be consuming 1 lb. of your own adipose tissue ( autolysis ) to make up for the energy deficit created by restricting caloric intake. This implies creating a daily caloric deficit on the order of 4700 cal. due to 3500 calories from autolysis of one pound of adipose fat and the additional 1200 calories that you are eating. This is a massive energy deficit, and I expect extremely unlikely. Nevertheless, this represents a diet that is roughly 75% fat and 25% carbohydrates, which I would expect to be rather ketogenic.

    If we assume that half of your weightloss was due to water ( we would expect that while in ketosis ), your average fat loss per day would be approximately 1800 calories, making your diet 1800 F, 800 CHO, and 200 P, which still has 65% of calories coming from fat. Again, I would expect this to be quite ketogenic.

    Glycerol is a great substrate for gluconeogenesis as two glycerol molecules can be used to produce one glucose molecule. Mitochondrial oxidation of non-esterified fatty acids produce ketones, meaning that as your body strips fatty acids from the glycerol backbone, they get oxidized and produce ketone bodies. At the same time, your liver gets a fresh supply of bare glycerol from which to synthesize fresh glucose!

    With respect to your question #4, you are probably eating significantly below your maintenance requirements, I think you would need to be at least at 1.5 g/kg of body weight to maintain your muscle mass, and this would depend to a very large extent on your training. Heavier training would imply more muscular trauma, and accordingly, a higher need for protein. Your body needs to get nitrogen from somewhere, and if you don't provide it in the diet, it will be scavenged from other sources.

    -PK
    PK,

    Thanks for taking the time to put all that together - it was helpful. Question: What am I missing here. How did you come up with 75% fat, 25% carb? Thanks in advance

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drettinger View Post
    The biochem of this is too in-depth for this forum, but I have gotten patients off all diabetic medication and balanced blood sugar from juice fasting alone. Manly green juices but there is a fair amount of carrot, beet and apple. I know it sounds crazy with all that sugar but the body just normalizes, I've seen it many times. These are type II diabetics.
    Please direct me to some links about the biochem of this, cos I'm curious now. I'm not a biochemist but I understand it enough to get some sense out of papers/journals.

    I have no doubt that a 90 day juice fast could rid someone of cancer. And that 1200 calories per day would improve insulin sensitivity. This seems perfectly plausible to me.

    What I'm puzzled about is the logic of having a patient go 90 days on an extremely low-fat diet. Of course I may be biased by the fact that ~50-60% of my calories are fats.
    Last edited by CaveWeirdo; 04-24-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveWeirdo View Post
    Please direct me to some links about the biochem of this, cos I'm curious now. I'm not a biochemist but I understand it enough to get some sense out of papers/journals.

    I have no doubt that a 90 day juice fast could rid someone of cancer. And that 1200 calories per day would improve insulin sensitivity. This seems perfectly plausible to me.

    What I'm puzzled about is the logic of having a patient go 90 days on an extremely low-fat diet. Of course I may be biased by the fact that ~50-60% of my calories are fats.
    I didn't cover the entire program, just the juicing part. Fat is definitely included (see this post) The Budwig Diet - Flaxseed Oil And Cottage Cheese Quark Diet

    Cancer doesn't use fat in any way so additional fat just helps the individual not the cancer. Cancer loves: sugar, acidity and hypoxia (low oxygen) and hates ketosis or low blood glucose, alkalinity and oxygen saturation. These three concepts make up the vast majority of alternative cancer therapies. There are even docs feeding cancer patients a high sugar solution then giving them low dose chemo and insulin. The insulin draws the chemo w/the sugar into the cancer cells where they are more effectively treated by the chemo. Check out Max Gerson and The Moss Report for more data.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by drettinger View Post
    PK,

    Thanks for taking the time to put all that together - it was helpful. Question: What am I missing here. How did you come up with 75% fat, 25% carb? Thanks in advance
    This was based on the initial assumption that you were losing 1 lb. of fat per day.

    Grossly speaking, if you eat at your maintenance level of calories, then you are weight stable. If you under eat, then you will lose weight to the extent of the caloric deficit you've created. But, that lost weight is effectively due to the fact that your fat tissue released some free fatty acids into the blood stream that were subsequently taken up by tissues in order to make up for the overall energy deficit created. Fat is feeding other tissues in your body, and whether that fat came from digestion of meals, or released from adipose tissue makes very little difference to the downstream tissues.

    With that in mind, if we were to assume fat loss of 1 lb. per day, that would imply that your adipose tissues had supplied that much fat. From the point of view of the free fatty acids circulating around in your blood stream, it is as though you had eaten 3500 calories worth of fat, instead of releasing that amount from adipose tissue. When we add these calories back into what you actually ate, then you have a predominantly fat based diet.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by drettinger View Post
    PK,

    Thanks for taking the time to put all that together - it was helpful. Question: What am I missing here. How did you come up with 75% fat, 25% carb? Thanks in advance
    This was based on the initial assumption that you were losing 1 lb. of fat per day.

    Grossly speaking, if you eat at your maintenance level of calories, then you are weight stable. If you under eat, then you will lose weight to the extent of the caloric deficit you've created. But, that lost weight is effectively due to the fact that your fat tissue released some free fatty acids into the blood stream that were subsequently taken up by tissues in order to make up for the overall energy deficit created. Fat is feeding other tissues in your body, and whether that fat came from digestion of meals, or released from adipose tissue makes very little difference to the downstream tissues.

    With that in mind, if we were to assume fat loss of 1 lb. per day, that would imply that your adipose tissues had supplied that much fat. From the point of view of the free fatty acids circulating around in your blood stream, it is as though you had eaten 3500 calories worth of fat, instead of releasing that amount from adipose tissue. When we add these calories back into what you actually ate, then you have a predominantly fat based diet.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  7. #27
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    I've always wanted to try juice fasting but I don't know how to start. Thanks for sharing your experience on your juice fast. It encourage me to give it a try

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