grain free page 12

[zoebird]

you also forgot to mention the post where she wrote that she hated to be around fat people, how they disgust her, and some rant about the kardasians (sp?).

on a board that has a lot of people who are trying to get healthy and who may be healthy, yet still *gasp* "fat."

yes, indeed. it is all of us haters over here being mean to fierce, couldn't be anything she's a-sayin' or a-doin'.

[zoebird]

^^I ate 2,000 cans of wild caught salmon in the 2000s. I have been eating mostly primally a long time, much longer than the rest of you. PB says 80% which works out to 3 cheat meals per month. I've been 70% primal a long time. In 10 years some of you may understand.

See, it's this that pisses me off.

Here is my history:

I was raised by a woman who lifted weights, did tae kwon do, and was very active throughout my childhood. she also practiced yoga. Guess what our diet was like? (1976 to 1994)

Meat, two veg. Starches -- corn, potatoes, white rice. On occasion (less than 1x week), pasta. As much fruit as we wanted.

As a matter of taste, I tended to avoid sweets -- which were only offered as treats outside of the house. I preferred fruit.

At 14, I started lifting weights with her. I practiced yoga from before I can remember (we have pictures). I played sports all through my growing-up years. I had unlimited fats in my teen years because my parents felt it was healthy for a growing child to simply eat to being full. I was never overweight.

In university, I lost 15 lbs in my freshman year, eating the way I did at home -- but more fresh foods than before -- and by having a walking-based lifestyle and getting into dance --african dance, mostly, as well as other forms of "anyone can dance" sorts of styles like scottish dancing and so on. (1994-1997)

I had an issue with my pituitary gland. This lead to weight gain. I was also eating poorly during this time (emotional eating). 1997-1999

After graduating, I opted to become vegan. I was a whole-foods vegan. This meant that I ate veggies, fruit, nuts and seeds, rice and beans. I do not prefer breads or oatmeal and the like -- never have. I might eat them once a week. I was still doing yoga and started training for triathlons. During this time, I lost all of the weight and according to my MRI's, my pituitary condition righted itself. 1999 -2004.

And, as always, I preferred fruit to sweets. During this time, I gave up all sodas in 2000 (i would have soda about once a week, if that -- and usually 8-12 oz only), switched over to dark chocolate when consuming chocolate, and discovered raw foodism (which is where i like to 'go to' for desserts and sweets these days because they are far less sweet than using sugar).

Around this same time, my husband discovered Weston A Price foundation. He transitioned his diet to what is effectively primal (he was already eating very clean, just . . . hard to explain. He's a body builder and has been since he was 19. He turns 40 this year. He rarely eats sweets -- you have to force him). This diet had two days of grains -- oatmeal on one workout day morning and toast on the other workout day morning (as part of a normal "primal" breakfast. Otherwise, he was grain free.

This is when we transitioned to eating locally, eating pasture raised foods, as well as mostly organic. Our dairy was raw, and so on and so forth.

That started in 1999.

In 2004, due to having low cholesterol (runs in the family), I transitioned back to vegetarianism. I consumed raw dairy, pasture-raised, free ranging eggs (i could see the chickens on the farm, so I know how they lived -- as well as the cows for the dairy), and stuck with my high-vegetable, bit of nuts and seeds, as much fruit as I wanted, low grain way of eating. You see, grains make me "puffy" -- so I don't eat them all that often.

In 2010, we moved to New Zealand. It took us a little while to source our foods locally -- at least 6 months before we got the connections that we needed. That first 6 months was really tough on us, and DH and I were eating a lot of locally made, but packaged foods. It was stuff that had ingredients that were real (no additives, etc), but still, prepared foods. We also ate a lot of rice, polenta, and oatmeal -- just to make things easy on ourselves. We also ate a lot of eggs, fresh veg, and so on -- as well as meats -- but, we were not eating to our normal standards.

In Nov 2010, we opted to go primal. I'd not heard of it, but DH had been having a severe, allergic-like reaction to wheat. He went to a naturopath, and she suggested going gluten free. We started doing research, and discovered paleo. Because primal also included dairy, we opted to go here -- not because of "cheats" or the 80/20. It just seemed closest to how we were eating, and how we would be eating since we decided not just to go gluten free, but grain free.

After being primal for the last 1.5 years -- as in "officially primal" -- I can honestly say that until we decided to try rice after workouts (and, btw, sweet potatoes work better so we've gone back to that) we were really only eating grains on special occasions -- such as. . . when we went to a wedding, or a birthday party, or some such. That is to say -- perhaps once or twice a quarter?

Sugar, that one might be a bigger one for us. I would say that once a week I eat dark chocolate. So, there's that. About 4 times a year, I have ice cream. I tend to be dairy free (butter 1-2 times a week, tops), so it's quite a treat. And then -- as I said -- I do occasionally have cake. I have had cake at least once a month this year -- and I had a rip-roaring week of it in either feb or march where my client got married (it was march), and another had a baby shower, and another got a new job, and so for several days people were bringing in cakes! LOL So, I had a sugar high going that week -- a piece of cake a day! Extravagant for me!

So, When you say that you have been doing this for a decade, and that I'll understand it when I've been there, I say "f-you."

You know why? I've been eating well my whole life. I have been low sugar since I was a kid. Yeah. I was that kid who still had easter candy at halloween, and you know what we got? Jelly beans (i would say, an oz or two?) and 1 chocolate rabbit. And Halloween? I never ate that stuff. Maybe a bit on halloween night, but after that? Not really. My preference -- always oranges.

Never been drunk. Never done drugs. I like to sleep. I meditate. I practice yoga daily.

No bigs. I'm not rubbing it in anyone's face, now am I?

Well, maybe yours.

[Catharsis]

See, it's this that pisses me off.......

Now that was epic in every sense of the word!

I don't think I've ever fully understood the 80/20 thing other than that the 20 is geared more towards things like when you go out to eat, you order a dish that is as close to primal as possible and you don't worry about what your steak was marinated in or if the salmon was farm raised, etc. and not that 20% of your eating week is spent eating a "reasonable" amount of whatever kind of crap you want.

When my birthday rolls around a bunch of us are going out and eating pizza and drinking beer (a lot of beer). I've been looking forward to it for months (and not because of the stupid pizza). I do not consider this coming planned activity a "20%" or even a "cheat". I consider it a physically unhealthy and stupid thing to do. However, I think it's mentally healthy for me to spend a day where everyone leaves the kids at home, hits the town and kicks back with old friends as a throw back to the old days where we ordered whatever we wanted off of menus, sat around, BS'd and just had a care free time.

Doing that once or twice a year probably isn't going to kill you (although if you're celiac it'll probably make you wish you were and being gluten sensitive it probably will make me wish I was dead for about a week after). But that's not 20%. That's a rare deviation from the notion of anything that remotely resembles a paleo lifestyle. Pizza is, and probably always will be my favorite food from a taste and texture standpoint. At the same time, I do not crave it or have any desire to consume it on a regular basis. However, on rare occasion I will eat it and enjoy it and the fun times with friends that it helps to represent. If someone has a problem with that, my advice is to "mind ya".

There is a healthy balance in all things. "Balance" doesn't necessarily mean "in the middle". "Balance" doesn't always mean once a day, or once a week or once a month. I don't think grains are healthy. Actually, I know they aren't. At the same time, it's important not to vilify something like it's the plague like one bite is going to kill you. You should be able to separate vilification from avoidance. Accidentally consuming something a person vilifies will often send them into a tailspin. I observed this with an old friend at a wedding. He was under the assumption that the "champagne" was sparkling grape juice and that it was the best he'd ever had... which he mentioned about halfway through his glass. Being the equivalent to an alcohol-beverage "foody" I hated to inform him that it was the real deal. I hated to do this because he had always prided himself on the fact that alcohol had never touched his lips. It didn't throw him into fit nor did he go into spasms, but I could read his face and knew exactly what he was thinking. Later on his wife told me that it really affected him. He spent a scary amount of time beating himself up over it like he was a horrible person. He missed the point in his own venture to avoid alcohol his entire life (which was for religious reasons). Actual consumption of alcohol shouldn't be the real point. After all, there's no telling how much alcohol-contained cough syrup he'd had in his life that just I saw him consume. The real point, for him, was about the reasonings why the choice would be made to consume alcohol in the first place. It's the reasoning behind the choice that is the point, not consumption itself regardless of if it's unintentional or not.

If his perspective was appropriate, he would have learned not to assume that bubbly stuff served at weddings is ALL non-alcoholic just because the families are religious. He also would have learned that accidental consumption of anything is different from intentional and while intent doesn't change cause and effect, it gives you permission to live and learn and not beat yourself up over something like eating a damn biscuit from Red Lobster twice a year!

[windypasswheeler]

I eat rice when sushi is offered at a social gathering. Blue corn tortillas are my specialty, I will eat one, but not 3 or 4, when I make them.

[Grumpycakes]

Still accused of everything by the public- vomitting, ....

I'm soooooo anorexic check out my "teen age" like blog:
The Skinny Life

Looks like you vomited all over that webpage.

J'accuse!!

[morganpmiller]

I've gone 4 months. I felt better than I had in a long time. You simply put your mind to it and exercise some will for the first month, then it should come pretty naturally. If grains, specifically wheat, in moderation, do not make you feel bad if eating them on occasion, then I say go for it. For me, staying away from grains for long periods is a necessity if I want to feel well and prosper.

[morganpmiller]

Zoebird, can you please very succinctly explain why you have such a beef with what fiercehunter is doing? I understand taking issue with her talking about fat people the way she did, but I do not understand the other stuff.

Im just wondering, do you look down on people that have had wild streaks, going out and partying quite a bit, and and coming out of it still extremely healthy? Do you resent people that are able to eat whatever they want for much of their youth, stay very lean, and maintain near perfect health?

Not trying to give you a hard time, its just some things you are saying in this thread make me curious.

[bloodorchid]

morgan, look at the posting history of fiercehunter

i'm not even going to touch the 'do you resent' bits

[morganpmiller]

Damn, some of you guys are as bad as religion zealots. If someone wants to go 80/20 as a part of their regular routine, than so he it. I see absolutely nothing.g wrong with this. Think eating grains a few times a week is far from ideal, but if the person doing it feels fine, and their diet and lifestyle arw otherwise great, than im sure they will live a very long healthy life.

It's almost as if misguided anger is being projected on other people here. I admit, image been guilty of this a few times myself.

[bloodorchid]

no. read the posting history. there are contradictions galore. no one knows what the hell she eats. no one cares what the hell she eats. then she'll say something from way out in space that bothers people. some people are just more patient with it than others. zoebird has the patience of a saint if it took this long for her to call fiercehunter out.