Twelve Percent page 5

[Rosencrantz1]

Cool; keep us posted!

[Hazy1966]

Hi Redguy,

Is it reasonable to expect to get to 12% body fat from doing PBF and fasting 16 hours every day, with a 24 hour fast about once a week?

Yes, absolutely reasonable.

I have been doing a PB diet since January 2nd, in conjunction with a leangains eating schedule (16 hr daily fast, with fasted training). My bodyfat has gone from 23.1% to 13.7%. I am 46 years old, 6 ft1, and started at 86kgs (currently 78.5kgs). I have a journal going if you want to see my monthly progress and photos.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread47861.html

I whole heartedly recommend the leangains system as well as PB. As far as the BCAA's go, I just have a large scoop of WPC and water just before training and the end of the 16 hour fast and it seems to work out for me. Leangains does involve pretty serious weight workouts though.

Good luck,

Neil

[Redguy]

Thanks Neil.

I checked out your journal. It looks like your starting point and goals are similar to mine. You're doing great! I can't do a gym so I'm doing SimpleFit at home. I'm definitely seeing fitness results. In the last 4 weeks I've gone from barely being able to do 3 pullups to being able to easily do 6. I'm pretty excited by the changes.

Even still, my overall exercise intensity has diminished somewhat, with an increase in the amount of move-slowly stuff. I've had the most significant gains since I started PBF in September of last year. It's possible that I was over-tired and my muscles are recovering, giving me a quick increase in strength.

[Redguy]

It's obviously been MONTHS since I've posted here. My shocking 2in loss in the first month did not hold. Right now my waist circumference is back at 38.5 inches.

I've been trying to assess where I went wrong. I'm still not sure I've got it nailed. Here's my best guess.

1. It was not a good idea for me to start tracking my calories on FitDay. I was eating a lot fewer calories than I thought and it gave me license to start eating more. This led to over eating.
2. I developed plantar fasciitis in both feet and had to stop sprinting. I'm getting close to being able to do it again, however.
3. My baby was born prematurely and we spend a lot of time in the ICU. He's doing great now though.

I've been back on the wagon now for a few months however and I have not had much movement. I'm actually having some problems. I have nagging hunger and low energy. I have a theory as to why this is. I think I'm not eating enough fat as a percentage of total calories. I plan to increase my fats while reducing my proteins. I think I eat a sizable hunk of meat just about every day. I'm going to try to eat 1/2 a sizable chunk of meat. We'll see how it goes.

[Neckhammer]

Sounds like a stressful period. Glad to hear your kid is doing great though! Stuff like that will really help put a few vanity pounds in perspective.

Far as your plan goes I wouldn't worry about the huge chunk of meat and protein. Just be sure the meat is well marbled . Protein is highly satiating and helps keep overall calories down. It is also necessary to eat high protein while losing weight if your goal is to retain lean mass. Marks recs of .7-1b/lb of lean mass is fine.

If I were you and recovering as you are I might consider completely nixing the sprints for a period. Do your lifting/PB fitness routine 2-3x/week and make certain to get in 3+ hours of low and slow every week working in the 55-75 zone.

New baby and all is probably enough stress. You don't need to ramp it up with too much high intensity stuff too frequently right now IMO.

[Redguy]

I measured my waist at my belly button again today. After several attempts, I arrived at 37 inches as a decent average. I plan to this at every first-of-the-month.

It seems to be very difficult to get a consistent measurement. My "jelly roll" creates a inward slope that starts at my belly button and stops at my rib cage. If the tape is in a slightly different vertical location, my measurement is drastically different. Plus I'm so soft in that region, it's hard to avoid shrinking the measurement by applying a tiny amount of tension to the tape.

This month was not a great month for me with regard to my dietary choices. I had 3 birthdays, and while I didn't eat anything horribly un-primal, there were two nut bread birthday cakes. I didn't exactly limit my intake.

But a net result of -1.5 inches is terrific!

This month my goals are:

1. Only eat when I'm hungry. This is going to be especially difficult when I'm home on the weekends. I tend to grab cheese and nuts often, mostly out of boredom.

2. On days that I'm not doing Lift Heavy Things, I will walk the dog. She loves and needs it. It's a huge part of what will get me to my goal.

3. Begin doing sprints on Sundays again. I'm supposed to be taking that day off, but I don't have any other days where I'm not busy all day. Besides, sprinting is fun!

[Redguy]

Today my waist measurement was 37.75. I didn't have a great month.

1. I wasn't able to keep myself from eating when I wasn't hungry. Last night I asked my wife to help keep me accountable in this.

2. I did walk the dog some, but I wasn't consistent. I was fighting getting sick and chose to rest more.

3. I didn't start sprinting again, mostly due to wanting to help with the fight against being sick.

As of today, I'm not feeling sick and I'm starting normal activity again. However, the biggest failure this month was my eating. I ate like there was no tomorrow. Tomorrow is here and I've lost ground.

[Redguy]

I gained inches again this month. I measured at 38.5.

I'm still trying to figure out my eating issue. Weekends are really tough. I can't seem to drum up the ability to not eat when I'm not hungry. During the week, I feel successful, however. 18 hour fast everyday, with a 24 hour fast one day a week.

My take is I need to learn how respond properly to hunger. This starts by recognizing what real hunger feels like. Fasting helps me to do that. Then I need to recognize what satiety feels like. This is where I am stuck. I am making progress though. I started (once in a while) taking just a small handful of almonds to work with me for "lunch". My challenge to myself was to wait until I felt "real" hunger. Then eat 1/2 of the almonds I bought and wait 10 minutes or so to see if I still felt that hunger. I want this excersize to teach me what satiety is and how much food it takes to get me there.

In this case, I didn't feel hungry. In fact, I didn't feel hungry for hours. At no time was I "full" however, and I know that's not the goal. For me, it what I erroneously want, however. I wanted to eat the rest on the almonds. If I were home, I would have probably gotten some other food as well. But while at work, I seem to be able to control myself more easily.

I am making some changes on the exersize front. My son is four. He is really starting to want to play with me when I get home. Instead of taking 45 minutes of the time that I have with either him or my wife, I'm going to go to a private room at work and do all of my work out there, except the pull ups, which I can only do at home. They're quick though.

My move-slowly stuff is going to be centered around playing with my son. It seems much more realistic and healthy, and a lot less like a chore.

[otzi]

Redguy - This is the first time I've seen your postings. This is an awesome journal that pretty much describes what a lot of us are going through: Finding we can maintain, but don't have what it takes to cut more and maintain at that lower level.

I'm a 48 yo, 5'10 guy. After an initial weightloss of 80lbs over 2 years, I've maintained around 165-175 for a solid year. I would love to be able to maintain between 155-165, but my forays below 165 were all short-lived. I'm presently at 170, on a downward trend from 175. The trouble always is, when I hit a new low, I stop the hardcore stuff that got me there, and put a bit back on--I keep close tabs, and never let myself go, but I can see how easy it would be to balloon back up to an overweight status, even just eating primal foods.

For me, weightloss means getting way out of my comfort zone. No breakfast, no snacks, lunch at 11 of 1 can sardines/dry salad, dinner at 6 of lean meat and veggies.

If I run a calorie calculator, they all say I should be taking in 1800-2500 calories to maintain. But I found I was maintaining on closer to 1500 calories, and gaining on 2000. It takes me under 1200/day to lose.

So, If I make it down to 160, that means my new maintenance level will be around 1300/day--that's not a lot of chow for a guy who walks 3-5 miles a day and exercises 3-5 days a week.

Here's what i'm trying to tell myself: I must be - A. Counting calories wrong; B. Need a lot fewer calories than most other people; C. Am genetically programmed to gain easily; D. A combo of those 3 factors.

I recently read this exchange in this article: Why one calorie for her is half a calorie for him

April 1, 2013 at 3:47 pm

Q: Looks like I’m in the minority here, but I have a ‘guy’ question for you:

I’m 48, 5’10, 170lbs. 3 years ago, I was 250lbs. I lost it all through low carb, whole foods. I’ve added in quite a few carbs lately from potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, etc…. and have been keeping my macros around 30% carb, 30% protein, and 60% fat. I have maintained my weight around 170 for over a year now.

I would like to lose another 10 pounds and maintain closer to 160. I have the flab to spare, I’m currently at about 18% body fat, I think 12% would be best. I can get down to 160 with some serious calorie restriction, but it never ‘sticks’. The trouble is, my maintenance level of calories is about 1500kcal/day. I exercise regularly, lifting several times a week, sprint weekly, and walk 3-5mi/day. I have an active job, not sedentary by any means.

If I overeat for several weeks, I regain weight easily–and on all good WAPF foods–no sugar, flour, or veg oil. 2000kcal/day will lead to several pounds added per month.

It is very depressing for me to think I will always be required to eat so little to maintain my weight. The advice to eat more, or eat more fat/less carbs etc… hasn’t worked. Adding in more carbs has made it easier to maintain my weight without wild fluctuations, but in order to get leaner, I will have to cut to 1000-1200/day and probably stay around 1200-1300 to maintain it. Does that seem reasonable to you or am I doing something wrong?

Reply

Konstantin Monastyrsky April 1, 2013 at 3:58 pm

Tim,

I am in a similar situation, although not as active as you are. To stick to my normal weight of 68 kg (150 lbs.), I am on a steady diet if 1400-1500 kk per day. To still enjoy life, I don’t eat breakfast, have a tiny lunch as late as possible, usually around 1 pm (@ 300 k), and enjoy a moderately “rich” dinner (@ 1100-1300 k). In your particular case I would also decrease fat to 40%, and increase carbs and proteins respectively. Fat is by far the most dense product, calorie-wise, so you’ll still be well lubed with 40%, while a great deal of satiety and satisfaction comes from chewing. Proteins are best for that.

Also, I usually let myself go a bit on the weekend, and enjoy a bit more variety. But I still stick to the rule of 2 meals a day with late lunch, 6-7 pm dinner, and no snacks. Hope you’ll find this information helpful.

Reply

Tim April 1, 2013 at 4:46 pm

Nature is indeed cruel!

Sounds like we are eating similarly. I normally have no breakfast or snacks, lunch at 11 of 1 can of sardines and 1/2 to 1 pound of a variety of raw veggies, then dinner at 6 of 1/2 to 1 pound of meat, cheese, almonds, fruit, dark chocolate, and a starch to equal about 1200kcal.

3 years ago, i was very obese and couldn’t do a single chinup or pushup, now regularly doing 20+ chinups and 30+ pushups in a set plus weighted squats. I would have thought with all these strength gains, my capacity to eat would have went up to close to where I was eating prior. Adding starch to my diet allowed me to increase my workouts and build some new muscle, but also led to a few extra pounds of padding around the middle.

My motivation to be at low body fat it not vanity, but rather I have obstructive sleep apnea which appeared 12 years ago when I started gaining weight and all but disappears when my weight is below 170.

Thanks for this series, hopefully more men will catch on and follow.

Reply

Konstantin Monastyrsky April 1, 2013 at 5:07 pm

Tim,

I am not sure if nature is cruel — it is what it is. If not for your ancestors’ amazing ability to rapidly gain weight, you would probably not be around today. I’ll talk about it more in the next post. (I was planning to discuss ketosis, but this subject is by far more important, so ketosis can wait.)

As far as your diets go, just reduce non-essentials: almonds and dark chocolate. The latter may contribute to sleep apnea and will ALWAYS compromise the quality of you sleep, and the fats in almonds are abundant, and most likely rancid. And consume cheese in moderation.

Congratulations on your tremendous weight loss! Keep it up!

[eKatherine]

I think some people are genetically programmed to put on muscle easily, some fat, some both, and some neither.