Red meat consumption, iron metabolism and accelerated aging page

[PaleoLogicCheck]

I came across a book that described how, what are now thought of as "normal" iron levels in the blood may actually be excessive. It wouldn't be the first time CW is wrong of course. Turns out the iron ions in the blood are essential for the formation of free radicals, accelerated aging's best friend.

This seems to be an emerging area of research, but possibly quite relevant to the Paleo diet.
Here's a link (not the book I found) that gives a basic overview of the connection:

Centenarians - More Differences Between the Sexes | HealthandAge – Medical Articles and News for Health in Aging > Live Well, Live Longer

The book I found went into more detail about statistics showing how post-menopausal women begin to have the same rate of cardiovascular disease as men of the same age. Pre-menopausal women have statistically lower rates of cardio related disease than men of the same age.

Of course red meat is red because of the iron content in the blood.
So, finishing the logic here, consuming red meat elevates iron levels in the blood.
Elevated blood iron levels accelerates aging due to the enhanced rate of free radical formation.

Does anybody know any more about this topic? Please share if so.

[peril]

Haemochromatosis, aka iron overload, is a genetic disorder that causes a toxic build up of iron in the blood, leading to disease and death if not treated. The treatment is simple, phlebotomy or bleeding.

My mother learned of her haemochromatosis too late. She died of liver failure. Of course, this means I'm heterozygous in the mutation. I have had elevated iron levels, addressed by donating blood. I've also had a heart attack. Have no idea if they are related.

If you are concerned about iron uptake, you can do a few simple things: reduce alcohol intake, reduce vitamin C intake and drink more tea

Don't know about any relationship with free radical formation.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

I'm not concerned about iron overload, per se. Well no more than anybody else should be.
I'm healthy.

Your mother's condition shows how serious iron overload is. It seems that even people without the genetic disorder can't "down regulate" excessive iron levels without giving blood. In other words, there is no "normal" physiological mechanism to dilute iron levels in the blood.

If true, and I have not confirmed this, it is strong evidence __against__ a high red meat diet.
But not "lean proteins".

So, I think this is a question of central importance to the Paleo diet based community.

I'm on board with the rest of the diet. I'm clearly on the fence about the _frequency_ of red meat consumption.

[peril]

I'm not concerned about iron overload, per se. Well no more than anybody else should be.
I'm healthy.

Your mother's condition shows how serious iron overload is. It seems that even people without the genetic disorder can't "down regulate" excessive iron levels without giving blood. In other words, there is no "normal" physiological mechanism to dilute iron levels in the blood.

If true, and I have not confirmed this, it is strong evidence __against__ a high red meat diet.
But not "lean proteins".

So, I think this is a question of central importance to the Paleo diet based community.

I'm on board with the rest of the diet. I'm clearly on the fence about the _frequency_ of red meat consumption.

Let's be frank. You are concerned specifically about excess iron associated with red meat. Iron is essential for oxygen uptake by the blood, so you can only be concerned about excess.

Two things to bear in mind here:

1. Iron levels are easily monitored
2. Iron is easily shed by donating blood

Note that I went primal after my heart attack in 2009. That also disqualified me from giving blood. I enjoy red meat. In that time my Transferrin, TIBC and Transferrin Saturation have all normalised, having been out of range. Serum ferritin has increased but is still well within the normal range. In short, eating a high red meat but primal diet has only done my iron levels good. Early days yet though.

Certainly nothing here to support your proposition

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Let's be frank. You are concerned specifically about excess iron associated with red meat. Iron is essential for oxygen uptake by the blood, so you can only be concerned about excess.

Two things to bear in mind here:

1. Iron levels are easily monitored
2. Iron is easily shed by donating blood

Note that I went primal after my heart attack in 2009. That also disqualified me from giving blood. I enjoy red meat. In that time my Transferrin, TIBC and Transferrin Saturation have all normalised, having been out of range. Serum ferritin has increased but is still well within the normal range. In short, eating a high red meat but primal diet has only done my iron levels good. Early days yet though.

Certainly nothing here to support your proposition

This is not my proposition - medical researchers, with clinical studies, are putting it out there. I keep an open mind and try to look at every side of an issue. Their question seems to be whether or not "normal" iron levels are in fact excessive. "Normal levels" are of course just an garden variety AMA recommendation based on CW. New data, like the data from these studies, can easily change that.

I enjoy red meat very much myself and for a long time. So, it's a practical question for me.

Another question, more philosophical, is if lowering iron levels actually requires "giving blood" then that means humans haven't evolved a mechanism to deal with too much blood iron. And that would mean Grok did not eat high levels of red meat. Again, "white meats" are a different story.

[peril]

Another question, more philosophical, is if lowering iron levels actually requires "giving blood" then that means humans haven't evolved a mechanism to deal with too much blood iron. And that would mean Grok did not eat high levels of red meat. Again, "white meats" are a different story.

Logic error is that giving blood or any other technique is required to lower serum iron levels. It is merely a quick and convenient way to do it. What evidence do you have, aside from haemochromatosis, that eating red meat leads to iron overload, however you define it?

[Knifegill]

Even though it's nothing new, this is a very relevant and worthy question. I do want to dig more into the numbers and studies on my own. The last time I looked into this was two years ago - and I'm sure I was being bombarded with vegan propaganda without realizing it.

I've just been doating blood as insurance, but they've never said my iron was high by any means. The scar on my vein makes me want to stop donating blood, so I might have to reduce the red meat intake - if I ever test high...

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Logic error is that giving blood or any other technique is required to lower serum iron levels. It is merely a quick and convenient way to do it. What evidence do you have, aside from haemochromatosis, that eating red meat leads to iron overload, however you define it?

These are exactly my questions. However, from what I've read some researchers are. It seems very strange that the human body doesn't have a mechanism (other than losing blood) for lowering blood iron levels.

I'd guess the level will lower 'naturally' (with low dietary iron intake) but, as you suggest, I would also guess it would happen much more slowly (as compared to giving blood).

But again even if that's true it still sounds like the AMA will most likely be lowering their recommended 'normal' range for blood iron levels based on the clinical studies.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Even though it's nothing new, this is a very relevant and worthy question. I do want to dig more into the numbers and studies on my own. The last time I looked into this was two years ago - and I'm sure I was being bombarded with vegan propaganda without realizing it.

I've just been doating blood as insurance, but they've never said my iron was high by any means. The scar on my vein makes me want to stop donating blood, so I might have to reduce the red meat intake - if I ever test high...

It's still 'new' to most people, it definitely hasn't hit the main stream.

And like you, I'd like to know how much red meat is too much (based on blood iron levels).
I don't want to go through the whole fake-period thing (giving blood monthly) to stay healthy.
I'd rather just lower the amount of red meat I consume.

Oh, and BTW, that also holds true for any 'high iron' content food. Spinach and orange juice come to mind.

[CaveCanem]

I remember Dr. Eades writing about this a number of years back. His take is that earlier humans would have had ways to shed iron. Boo boo's, parasites, bug bites, etc. I say why worry? We should all give blood from time to time anyway.