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Thread: Red meat consumption, iron metabolism and accelerated aging page 5

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiercehunter View Post
    I didn't eat red meat for 2 decades, had so many physical and emotional problems. At this point in my life I want my meat.
    I hear you, so do I.

    Did you see this little bread crumb from my previous post?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    *'Dietary compounds that inhibit iron absorption (e.g., polyphenols in tea and coffee [124,125]) may offer alternative approaches to mitigate iron accumulation during the aging process. Future research is warranted to test dietary interventions.'
    Well, I used google to follow that bread crumb all the way back to the references [124,125]:

    Iron absorption and phenolic compounds: importance of different phenolic structures. - Abstract - UK PubMed Central

    http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...b278dbfe6e39fd

    I really like the concluding statement from the second paper:

    "Polyphenol-containing beverages, however, do strongly inhibit Fe absorption in the single meal studies and, even though
    this inhibition may be less pronounced when averaged over the many meals of a whole diet (Cook et al. 1991), it would
    still seem wise to consider this property when giving dietary advice to individuals who are most susceptible to developing
    Fe deficiency. On the other hand, the consumption of polyphenol-containing beverages, and in particular black tea with
    meals, could be a useful strategy in reducing Fe absorption in patients with Fe overload disorders
    (deAlareon et al.1979)."


    Red wine works too, but not apparently not as well as tea and coffee:

    "While both tea and coffee have been shown to strongly inhibit Fe absorption from both simple bread meals and more complex composite meals (Hallberg & Rossander, 1982; Morck et al. 1983), red wine had little influence on Fe absorption from a composite meal containing meat and vegetables (Hallberg & Rossander,1982).

    I'm still enjoying the tea I drank with my steak tonight...lol. Obviously I'm a fan of this strategy even though it hasn't been worked completely through. In science the details are always important but the basic approach can always be refined as new information becomes available.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    I hear you, so do I.

    Did you see this little bread crumb from my previous post?



    Well, I used google to follow that bread crumb all the way back to the references [124,125]:

    Iron absorption and phenolic compounds: importance of different phenolic structures. - Abstract - UK PubMed Central

    http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...b278dbfe6e39fd

    I really like the concluding statement from the second paper:

    "Polyphenol-containing beverages, however, do strongly inhibit Fe absorption in the single meal studies and, even though
    this inhibition may be less pronounced when averaged over the many meals of a whole diet (Cook et al. 1991), it would
    still seem wise to consider this property when giving dietary advice to individuals who are most susceptible to developing
    Fe deficiency. On the other hand, the consumption of polyphenol-containing beverages, and in particular black tea with
    meals, could be a useful strategy in reducing Fe absorption in patients with Fe overload disorders
    (deAlareon et al.1979)."


    Red wine works too, but not apparently not as well as tea and coffee:

    "While both tea and coffee have been shown to strongly inhibit Fe absorption from both simple bread meals and more complex composite meals (Hallberg & Rossander, 1982; Morck et al. 1983), red wine had little influence on Fe absorption from a composite meal containing meat and vegetables (Hallberg & Rossander,1982).

    I'm still enjoying the tea I drank with my steak tonight...lol. Obviously I'm a fan of this strategy even though it hasn't been worked completely through. In science the details are always important but the basic approach can always be refined as new information becomes available.
    You might find this article interesting.

    Increased Lean Red Meat Intake Does Not Elevate Markers of Oxidative Stress and Inflammation in Humans

    It seems in a clinical setting unless your deranged genetically or metabolically your body can handle the iron fairly well. Epidemiology studies have time and again proven to lead people astray.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    You might find this article interesting.

    Increased Lean Red Meat Intake Does Not Elevate Markers of Oxidative Stress and Inflammation in Humans

    It seems in a clinical setting unless your deranged genetically or metabolically your body can handle the iron fairly well. Epidemiology studies have time and again proven to lead people astray.
    I did find it interesting, thank you for sharing. At first I thought 'great, it's not an issue after all'! Then I re-read it and found it lacking. The authors themselves state some of the results contradict their own expectations. The study was done in 2006, or earlier, 'Manuscript received 24 August 2006. Initial review completed 24 September 2006.'

    The main problem with this study is that it completely ignored hepcidin. As I've learned right here on this thread, hepcidin is the key bio-marker for iron and causes other known markers to behave differently than expected. It would be like a study on sugar that ignores insulin.

    Here are some links on hepcidin:

    Basic intro:
    * Hepcidin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    * Highlights:
    * 'It was discovered in 2000, and appears to be the master regulator of iron homeostasis in humans and other mammals'
    * 'The overload of iron is associated with low levels of hepcidin'
    * 'Hepcidin functions to regulate iron transport across the gut mucosa, thereby preventing excess iron absorption and maintaining normal iron levels within the body.'

    Advanced:
    * Regulation of Iron Metabolism by Hepcidin - Annual Review of Nutrition, 26(1):323
    * Highlights:
    * 'Hepcidin controls plasma iron concentration and tissue distribution of iron by inhibiting intestinal iron absorption'
    * 'Synthesis of hepcidin is homeostatically increased by iron loading and decreased by anemia and hypoxia.'
    * 'Hepcidin is also elevated during infections and inflammation, causing a decrease in serum iron levels and contributing to the development of anemia of inflammation, probably as a host defense mechanism to limit the availability of iron to invading microorganisms.'
    --> This explains one of the 'contradictory' results the 2006 paper reports. Most likely it just wasn't practical at that time to monitor hepcidin. Why?

    Clinical Diagnosis:
    * Hepcidin in Human Iron Disorders: Diagnostic Implications
    * Highlights:
    * Received for publication May 10, 2011; Accepted for publication July 20, 2011
    * 'However, before hepcidin measurements can be used in routine clinical practice, efforts will be required to assess the relevance of hepcidin isoform measurements, to harmonize the different assays, to define clinical decision limits, and to increase assay availability for clinical laboratories. '

    I would be very interested in seeing a similar study that includes hepcidin measurements.

  4. #44
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    Thanks for some more info its always going to be hard to prove something doesnt happen than it is to prove it does. The study has its strength and weaknesses as do all the others. I would be more inclined to base an opinion off this than epidemiology studies.

  5. #45
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    Had some bloodwork done for a few parameters. Mainly B12, Iron, Calcium, Magnesium and liver and kidney tests. Apart from not really knowing what they looked for in the blood test for the liver and kidney, the only thing that was red flagged was my iron level. Turns out it was above normal range and higher than normal.

    Did not expect that, i was more worried about electrolyte imbalance which was promted by chest pains and weird sensations on my left upper chest where the heart is. I'm young, underweight and the tests suggested i'm not diabetic or anythign else to spark concerns apart from the iron. I'm due for another iron check in 2 weeks in which it will hopefully come down to closer normal range. I hope that it's my diet at play and not significant inflammation like my doc suggested. I do ingest red meat and fish most, with a whole chicken roast once a week. I have eaten 2 whole 85% lindt dark chocolate bars within the last 2 weeks of taking the test so i hope it's just excess iron and can lower with an imrpovised diet. Will try more fish and perhaps some chicken spread throughout the week. This thread was fairly interesting read.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by zizou View Post
    Had some bloodwork done for a few parameters... I hope that it's my diet at play and not significant inflammation like my doc suggested...This thread was fairly interesting read.
    Assuming that it turns out to be diet related, here are the 3 strategies:

    (1) Reduce consumption of high-iron foods
    (2) Increase consumption of 'iron absoprtion blockers' when consuming high iron foods, tea and coffee are 2 of the best
    (3) Increase consumption of 'iron chelators' which remove iron already absorbed in the body, dairy products are a good source of these

    Yes, it's an interesting topic. If/when I learn more, I'll post an update.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  7. #47
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    Donate blood to reduce your iron level.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Assuming that it turns out to be diet related, here are the 3 strategies:

    (1) Reduce consumption of high-iron foods
    (2) Increase consumption of 'iron absoprtion blockers' when consuming high iron foods, tea and coffee are 2 of the best
    (3) Increase consumption of 'iron chelators' which remove iron already absorbed in the body, dairy products are a good source of these

    Yes, it's an interesting topic. If/when I learn more, I'll post an update.
    Hey Paleologic, thanks for the reply.

    I will hopefully get the test done soon and will start drinking green tea a bit again. Will keep an eye out on this thread, but also an eye out on my beloved steaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by workinprogress View Post
    Donate blood to reduce your iron level.
    This is actually a welcoming cure, and best bit is it works. How cool is it to heal yourself by helping others..

  9. #49
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    Update:

    The whole 'accumulated iron' theory discussed here turns out to be part of a broader theory of aging called 'overmineralization'.

    Here's how one source ( FAQ related to Longevinex®: resveratrol based anti-aging pill ) describes it:

    "During the first 18 years of life, all the calcium consumed in the diet is directed toward building new bone, and all the dietary iron is shuttled to the bone marrow to make new red blood cells. Up to that point in time, humans have had birthdays, but they have not begun to age. But once the human body stops growing, at around age 18, these two key minerals begin to accumulate in cells, leading to progressive aging (calcification and rusting).

    Markers of aging in living cells, such as accumulation of a form of debris called lipofuscin, does not begin to materialize until the third decade of life, after childhood growth has ceased. Lipofuscin is composed of fats and proteins that represent cellular garbage, which are normally cleared from living cells during youth by enzymes produced from lyosomes, which are organelles within living cells. The energy for lyosomes to do their cleanup work is provided by other organelles called mitochondria, known as the atomic power plants of living cells. As these organelles within living cells beging to calcify and rust, the cell progressively ages.

    By age 40 a male will have twice the calcium and iron stored in his body compared to an equally aged female and will experience double the risk for heart problems, cancer and diabetes. Females escape this fate for a time, donating calcium to their offspring and eliminating iron from the body during monthly menstruation. Progressive aging for females begins with menopause or early hysterectomy."


    Of course this source sells a pill that 'reverses' all of that. I kind of doubt that.


    But as for the theory itself, it sounds to me like a plausible and significant piece of the aging puzzle. It's based on evidence and is consistent. The only part I don't 'get' is why a mechanism to 'excrete' these excess minerals hasn't evolved, or was selected against.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  10. #50
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    I remember reading many years ago the connection between high iron levels and heart attacks... so it's funny that the information isn't more present today?! (I reckon it was about 15 to 20 years ago that I first heard about it). I think it's probably a good reason why people should donate blood! (Which I would except for the restrictions after having tattoos - I think you have to wait a year after tattooing to donate blood ).

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