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Thread: Question regarding protein supplements (Whey) page

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    botchagalupe's Avatar
    botchagalupe is offline Junior Member
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    Question Question regarding protein supplements (Whey)

    In reading the page Primal Blueprint Shopping List it suggests Whey protein powder as a supplement; however, the link Dairy and Its Effect on Insulin Secretion (and What It Means for Your Waistline) seems unclear about the insulin response from whey. I am considering trying out the 21 day program but I really want to be clear on my research.

    Thanks in Advance

  2. #2
    johneeeveee's Avatar
    johneeeveee Guest
    There should be no need to supplement protein on a healthy diet. Save your money and buy some fresh organic locally grown food with it : )
    That is my opinion, but there is much research and decades of experience behind what I am saying, and I offer it to you as a consideration, and with answering your question honestly and intention of helping. Others will probably ay differently, and you can consider what they have to say as well. I don't claim to know everything, but i feel strongly about this.
    Eating whole unprocessed foods is the best we can give our bodies.
    Best to you - jv

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    jakey's Avatar
    jakey is offline Senior Member
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    totally agree with johneeeveee! protein is so easy to come upon in a diet like this, of all things you could possibly supplement, i would think it would be the last thing you might need. and i don't think most people need supplements, assuming health and a robust diet.

    also, please don't fear insulin. particularly spikes after meals. big difference between a post prandial insulin spike (normal, no problem), and your fasting insulin levels (which you want to be low).

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    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
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    Protein from meat, eggs, seafood and such is paired nicely with fat and fat soluble vitamins. Oh, and if you are concerned about insulin spikes.....fat. Fat blunts those spikes and a whey protein shake don't got it.

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    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
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    I'm just gonna copy past this answer by PKLOPP from an earlier thread on dairy and insulin and weight loss since he did such a good job and it seems relevant........

    "The primary proteins in milk are unique to milk, not found in any other tissues. Broadly speaking, there are two categories of milk proteins, the main group is the casein proteins ( about 3 or 4 depending on the species ), with the remaining proteins in milk grouped together as the whey protein group. All of these proteins are highly insulinogenic, meaning they produce a pronounced insulin response, even in the absence of carbohydrate. Keep that last bit in mind, it will be pivotal later.

    Several studies have been performed to determine the effects of milk proteins on insulin levels, and a really interesting one compared the effects of ingesting cream vs. caseins. Cream is basically all fat, the lactose and proteins in milk have been processed out via centrifuging. So, we're essentially comparing the insulin effects of ingesting milk fats vs. ingesting milk proteins, no carbohydrates allowed.

    Take a look at the below table ( cribbed from Peter @ Hyperlipid ) and see what happens to your insulin when you ingest casein. One and two hours after ingesting casein, insulin levels are threefold higher than baseline, and this is a statistically significant result. Three hours later and we're still more than double the baseline insulin level. But remember, we have not been ingesting any carbohydrates, so, by rights, our hapless experimental subjects should all be in hypoglycemic comas. But, happily, they're not, because glucose levels have not budged from baseline.



    The burning question then becomes, how do you keep glucose levels constant in the face of tripled insulin levels and no dietary intake of carbohydrate? The one word answer is ... glucagon.

    The chart below comes from a different study that had subjects eat four different isocaloric meals that were high in protein, fat, carbohydrate, or alcohol. So, we're eating the same amount of calories in each meal, but were changing the macronutrient ratios. Take a look at the insulin and glucagon response panels at the bottom of the diagram, the bit we're interested in is the delta-AUC, or, the change in the area under the curve, which we can interpret as the overall effect of the meal. Well, as I've highlighted, every meal, with the notable exception of the high carbohydrate meal causes both insulin and glucagon levels to increase in approximately the same magnitude. The high carbohydrate meal spikes insulin while at the same time suppressing glucagon, in fact lowering it somewhat over baseline.



    Glucagon has the opposite effect of insulin on lipolysis, that is, while insulin inhibits lipolysis, glucagon promotes it. So, in general, net net it is pretty much a wash in terms of lipolysis ... one step forward, one step back. Only in the case of high carbohydrate meals do we have a net suppression of lipolysis, but not due to insulin secretion, but rather to the suppression of glucagon.

    Now, we can finally answer your question: does dairy intake make one fat via the action of dairy on insulin and that hormone's peripheral effects on lipolysis? No, because there is a compensatory secretion of glucagon by the pancreas in order to maintain normoglycemia and the peripheral effect of glucagon on lipolysis is to increase lipolysis.

    I tend to think that the anti-dairy paleo faction is probably overstating their case.

    -PK "

    here is the thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread51960.html since the graphs didn't copy over.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-01-2012 at 07:33 AM.

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    Pebbles67's Avatar
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    My N=1,
    I have 50g of unflavored Whey protein mixed with water every morning. I add stevia and cocoa powder. It is 220cals. My goal is to get to 130g of protein based on LBM. I have a hard time getting there with meat sources. A) I Just can't eat that much. B) I Don't want the extra calories. When I use it, I lose weight and build muscle easier and feel more satisfied throughout the day.

    Caveat: I am a woman in her 40's who has lost 60 lbs and is aiming to lose 40 more. My situation may not match yours. What the guys said above may work better for you.
    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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    raptoryell's Avatar
    raptoryell is offline Senior Member
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    If you need it to meet your goals...go for it.
    But one should only take supplements once your diet is in check first.

    I workout extremely hard and pound down a whey protein shake PostWO to get the nutrients in immediately.

    So, it all depends on each individual. Do what works for you....the rest is 'blah blah blah'
    Primal (2013)
    Locavore (locally grown foods when possible)
    Training consists of Muay Thai, BJJ, weight training, and mountain biking

    Would like to be in good shape by my 36th Birthday (07-07-2013)

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