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Thread: Question on when to add carbs & exercise back in. page

  1. #1
    gopintos's Avatar
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    Question on when to add carbs & exercise back in.

    First of all, I am so impressed with how well versed and informed and knowledgeable everyone is. Therefore I hesitate to ask a question because I am just learning so I am afraid of sounding too dumb. However I am more afraid of not asking and not learning and doing something wrong. I am trying to be a sponge and absorb. I am trying to research and find my own answers but there is just so much information here, I am having trouble finding my way.

    My goal is fat loss.

    I have taken these notes:
    100-150 grams/day Primal Blueprint Maintenance Range
    50-100 grams/day Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss
    0-50 grams/day Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

    Working backwards from today, I have kept my net carbs to 12,21,27,32,30,46,39,53,40,59 so I have been getting better at limiting carbs. Prior to this, I was around 125 - 150 but that was not Net. I didnt know about Net.

    Fats are high. Proteins not too shabby. My BP is down, cholesterol down and tri. is waaay down back to normal but this was taken just a few days into the high fat/high protein.

    I am confused about exercise, like a fast pace ST w/resistance bands. Circuit training I guess. Confused about things like Zumba. I have a friend that wants to Zumba about 2 hours a week, but wondering if I should or if it is necessary. Just stick to ST & Mark's Fitness book and/or doing a walk instead, or something like Tabata or something on my elliptical.

    My biggest confusion is this, if I can word it. I have been losing weight still but about the same rate as before I started seriously limiting my carbs. Again working backwards a few weeks, I have lost 1.9, 1.4, 2.0 pounds. However from this last Wednesday to yesterday, was 2 pounds with no real exercise to speak of. I really didnt have much energy until about Monday anyways.

    So I guess where I am going with this, I don't see an accelerated fat burning by being under 50. Okay this is based on the scale. However my tape measure around my waist hasnt moved for weeks. However 2 pounds may be considered accelerated, as that is 100 pounds a year, which is about how much more I would like to lose yet.

    I am wondering if since I have been slowing backing off the carbs for many months now, if I have already experienced the accelerated fat loss, in that I have already lost almost 40 pounds with just over half of that since January when I got serious?

    I am just wondering if it is okay to bump the carbs back up? Don't get me wrong, I am loving all the meat and fat. If I thought I could lose weight and then maintain it, I could keep it like that forever. But I am not eating any fruit and I do miss it. I am not even eating a Daily Apple. I am trying to figure out when it is okay to add some things back in. Seems like I am doing the same under 50 as I did under 150.

    I am not hungry, but looking for more variety of more of the fruits and veggies that have more carbs than some of the others that I am not eating now. And do I need to back off the fat? And if so, what should I be shooting for percentage/gram wise?

    I just dont know exactly what you do in regards to the program, when you hit Ketosis or whatever the terminology is. I do think I am there but I dont know where to go from here. I did see someone post a similar question but I didnt see my answer yet. I guess I dont really know if I am there, but I have been peeing with more conviction while drinking the same 16 - 24 glasses of water. I even make bubbles now, that I hadnt noticed before... and I am a girl. It is also yellow, which I thought was due to my vitamins, even though I never noticed it before, but it isnt as yellow today so far, but I am still taking vitamins. I sweat after a meal. Not alot but things sure warm up. I think I have had a metal taste but it isnt something constant. I just get a weird taste once in awhile. So I may or may not be there, I don't really know.

    I also think part of my confusion is because I have been reading so much from so many different sources, that they are just all running together. Primal, Paleo, leptin reset..... Carbohydrate drives insulin drives fat - Can it really be that simple? It seems so simple, yet I am so confused.

    So I am just so confused what to do. Eat more carbs? Eat less fat? Cardio? ST only? I just want to do it right and do what is best. I just dont know what that is and therefore I am afraid to do anything. I get a knot in my stomach to think about it and messing up any progress so far. I realize I probably need to find what works for me, experiment, but if there is definitely something to do or not to do, I just am trying to figure that out before I do any backtracking.

    Sorry to be so wordy. I am just looking for answers and afraid of messing up.
    Thanks for any and all help.

  2. #2
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    Hi. It's great that you've provided so much detail, but a few more details will help posters give a considered response. I assume you have kept number of calories constant, and simply replaced carbs with fat? How many calories a day are you eating? How many grams of protein?

    Whatever, the answers I'd say go back to eating moderate carbs, as you were before, because you were losing weight quite quickly and easily anyway. I don't think accelerating fat loss is a great idea. If you're not insulin resistant (doesn't sound like you are) there's no big advantage to eating VLC. That's what I've found - eating low carb and lower calorie doesn't speed up my weight loss one iota (I'm exercising quite a lot and eating around 150-180 g carbs a day).

    I recommend you start exercising, especially strength training, to prevent muscle loss and perhaps gain some muscle too, unless you feel you already have enough.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  3. #3
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    ^^^ Agreed

    <50 g does not mean accelerated weight loss, it was a good way for me to stop weight loss.
    Primal since March 2011

    Female/29 years old/5' 1"/130ish lbs

  4. #4
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    Oh gosh, I feel better already. <deep sigh> thank you for replying.

    No not enough muscle. It is there somewhere. I had always been strong and athletic until I got fat. :P What about cardio like Zumba? Yeah? Nay? I really can do without it but I have learned to do it. If that is what it takes I will keep at it. I want to stay ahead of saggy skin. I picture in my mind the fat melting away and there would be my muscular fit body waiting. haha

    I tried to provide alot of details - that is the one thing I got from most of the posts... "we need more details" haha

    Okay so here are more details.

    Again, working backwards:
    calories/net carbs/fat/protein
    1053/12/51/124
    970/21/54/89
    1413/27/100/83 (i discovered I had a salad dressing with low carbs and i went crazy. probably over 400 cal. worth of crazy)
    1090/32/51/72
    1030/30/57/97
    1096/46/32/137

    When I limit carbs, calories suffer. Prior to that, I was between 1200-1400 calories. Fats around 40. Proteins around 70. Carbs 125 - 160 Gross. Buuuut.... I was also needing to snack 2 - 6 times per day. I am down to one snack a day now, late afternoon, however yesterday I took a PGX fiber instead. So fewer calories but full longer. Maybe I am over thinking this. I just want an apple once in awhile, an orange or banana once in awhile. Maybe even a sweet potato once in awhile but now I just dont know how to work it in - I am afraid to for fear of undoing something. I am not really craving this things. I can do without them also. Prior to trying to lose weight, I NEVER ate fruit so I dont know why I am even tripping on it. I guess cuz I learned to like apples

    My sleep is all over place but this past week I had (4) 7 hour nights and that NEVER happens so that was sure nice.

    I have just been reading ppl talking about upping carbs and cutting back on fat. I didnt know if I should do this. I wasnt sure why my tape measure wasnt moving. Most ppl say their scale doesnt move but their tape measure does. Of course leave it to me to be backwards. But I quit exercising this past week, so I was afraid maybe I was losing muscle or something so that was why I was dropping pounds but no inches.... just so many thoughts jumbled up in my head.....
    Last edited by gopintos; 03-22-2012 at 09:15 AM.

  5. #5
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    I have found that the weight loss comes in fits and starts. It's not linear.

    This will sound odd, but it may help you to eat a little more calories. You need enough calories that you have the energy for exercise.

    The effortless weight loss zone may be way more effective for you for weight loss than the super low carb zone. If you want to do a once in a while super low carb, the best way is to not eat at all for something like 14-18 hours. In other words, intermittent fasting. This has benefits beyond just helping your weight.

    It's good to find your own sweet spot for carbs. I believe you should give the low carb a good college try, get yourself adapted to it, then find the sweet spot. Otherwise it's too easy to just say "nope, doesn't work for me." It doesn't work for anybody who doesn't allow themselves to adapt to it. I'm adapted to very low carb but if I stay there for a long time, I get quiet, withdrawn and sometimes a headache. If I go into Mark's upper range, I get hungry, cranky and can't manage my appetite. I find Mark's middle range makes me feel the best, gives me that boundless energy and focused mind everybody talks about.

    In my opinion, especially at the start of a weight loss program like this, the exercise isn't very important. You could just do some walking and leave it at that. But if you like Zumba or any of the other things available to you, there's no reason not to do them. The reason I think the exercise isn't very important is that you need time to adjust. The dietary changes themselves are already stressful for the body there's not much reason to cause further stress with too much exercise. Learning how stress inhibits weight loss has been one of the stranger things I've learned around here. It could explain why I could exercise myself to death in the past and stay fat and why you can eat about 1000 calories a day and see no weight loss.

    Good luck to you and welcome to the tribe!
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

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    You guys are awesome! Thank you. I was super stressing over it. I had read ppl talking about if you go over 50 etc you will have to start all over and it will be harder, etc so I just didnt know what to do.

    I did exercise with my friend today. About 45 minute. It was more of the ST with a little cardio thrown in. I think I will stick to those type exercises, like my Slim in 6 and I just got Momma Wants her Body back in the mail yesterday and I cant remember what that was all about. I ordered it a month ago. I also have downloaded the Primal Fitness, so I guess I should look at that But anyways, I survived exercise today

    Now, if I can just sleep tonight.

    Thanks again!!

  7. #7
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    I agree that more calories are required. You were doing much better on 1200-1400 a day. As fat is burnt more efficiently than carbs, replacing starch intake with fat will reduce the number of calories you burn.

    And I agree that too much exercise is a terrible idea. Introducing exercise slowly is a very good idea because it will increase the number of calories you burn, help you build muscle and improve your mood and well-being. Anyone with a BMI of around 27.5 (as a yardstick) you should limit high impact exercise. Swimming, cycling, a gentle relaxing stroll are all good. Do something you enjoy. Strength training would be a good idea, but it's not all or nothing with PB - I've followed the general principles recommended as well as I can, building up gradually. I can't do many of the recommended dynamic strength-building exercises with or without weights due to hypermobile joints, but I don't worry about that and have built up a lot of muscle without needing any guidance from a personal trainer, etc.

    Many here have found that eating very low carb long-term while not exercising has lowered their insulin sensitivity and has decreased their thyroid function.

    It is unlikely you are very insulin resistant, given your success eating moderate carb. Have you had your fasting and post-prandial blood glucose measured? That's a key indicator for insulin sensitivity. If you haven't then I recommend you get that done and then eat VLC if that seems advisable.

    Also, bear in mind that on average you'll be burning a lot more glucose than someone who is significantly smaller than you. "0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning" refers to someone of average size.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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    paleo-bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    You guys are awesome! Thank you. I was super stressing over it. I had read ppl talking about if you go over 50 etc you will have to start all over and it will be harder, etc so I just didnt know what to do.

    I did exercise with my friend today. About 45 minute. It was more of the ST with a little cardio thrown in. I think I will stick to those type exercises, like my Slim in 6 and I just got Momma Wants her Body back in the mail yesterday and I cant remember what that was all about. I ordered it a month ago. I also have downloaded the Primal Fitness, so I guess I should look at that But anyways, I survived exercise today

    Now, if I can just sleep tonight.

    Thanks again!!
    Ah so you want to lose weight gained due to pregnancy. It's worth seeking advice from others who've achieved that successfully. There are threads you may find useful on this - if you use the search function. I can't help you there.

    No, don't stress. And don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    Ah so you want to lose weight gained due to pregnancy.
    ummmmmm sort of LOL. Last baby just turned 18 And I never thought too much about losing weight or gaining weight after he was born. Then at some point, about 5 or 6 or so years ago, I would go to my Dr. every year about my weight, asking for help. I wasnt sleeping hardly at all. Now I know how detrimental that was. Then a few years ago, we had a total loss house fire. The stress of rebuilding I guess, and eating all the wrong things, led to a 60 pound weight gain in just that one year that followed. So I was a mess. I still shake my head to think about it.

    The first thing I cut, was sweet tea. Cold turkey. At a gallon a day, I figured 1.5 cups sugar, around 300g carbs and 1200 calories in just tea. So that was the first food group to go

    I did have some fasting blood work done the other day. Not sure it's the same as you were talking about but they only did my cholesterol since last June everything else was okay.

    Cholesterol
    6/2011 - was 226
    3/2012 - now 214

    Triglycerides
    6/2011 - was 161
    3/2012 - now 103

    The breakdown is as follows
    HDL - 45 (She said the "range" for women, they want to see Greater than 40) (?)
    LDL - 148 (She said the "range" they want to see is less than 160) (?)

    So I am guessing I have blood in my veins again instead of sweet tea And my BP was down also. This was just done last Friday.

    I will try harder to bump up the calories. The trouble I had was eating more also bumped up the carbs. That was early on. I have a pretty good handle on it now so I could add another veggie with supper. I also just read another thread about veggies, and was reminded about the fat sauces. That one still blows my mind. I made my son an alfredo sauce for his shrimp.. for breakfast... I think he is primal at heart... and he is a bean pole..... so anyways, as I am making it, I realize there is very little carbs in it and I have been avoiding that sort of stuff like the plague!! But it would be awesome on veggies and meats.

    Are snacks okay if you need them? I usually need something in afternoon.... like about ..... now

  10. #10
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    Oh, I understand that stress can be a big factor in weight gain!

    Your readings look great. I guess you've not had your blood glucose measured. I am not sure you need to, as you've done so well eating low to moderate carbs. Let me get this right, you lost 20 lbs since January, and had lost 20 lbs prior to that without having to eat VLC? Then you tried VLC and the weightloss stopped.

    I don't know whether your story is one of many that inspired BuffaloGrok to start this thread (Why are you all scared of carbs): http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread51476.html

    It is certainly very relevant to that thread IMO. I noticed you'd posted to Buffalo Grok's thread just now, and that reminded me to look for this thread and I then discovered that I missed your last update yesterday.

    By the way I think it's great that you did that exercise class with your friend. Did you sleep well last night? I find exercising in the afternoon or evening helps me sleep better.

    I snacked during my first few months, and lost weight fast. I no longer felt the need to snack about 5 months in. Mark often has a snack in the afternoon. It's ideal to avoid snacking, so aim to cut down gradually, but once a day is nothing to worry about right now.

    Your 18 year old son certainly shouldn't fear carbs either!
    Last edited by paleo-bunny; 03-23-2012 at 04:34 PM. Reason: clarification
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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