trail race barefoot page 2

[pace2race]

I could not imagine running real trail in minimalist shoes. You need support in the toe box and shank. Especially if this is for an ultra. One face plant after tripping over fixed rock and I would be done. Hard to race with a jammed or broken toe. I also couldn't take repeated downhill landings on sharp fixed or loose sliding rock.

[Kakes]

I know more than a few ultra marathoners who run blister, bruise, and injury-free in the Altras (without changing shoes the entire race). They came out with the Lone Peaks specifically for trails not too long ago. It has a rock plate and a trail rudder on it. Pretty sweet.

[Bananabonobo]

I'd agree, except running trails in any other footwear for me = ankle sprains, which take a lot longer to heal than foot bruises. Hence why this whole thread is about finding a happy medium (something with a bit of underfoot anti-rock but still pro-barefoot).

I could not imagine running real trail in minimalist shoes. You need support in the toe box and shank. Especially if this is for an ultra. One face plant after tripping over fixed rock and I would be done. Hard to race with a jammed or broken toe. I also couldn't take repeated downhill landings on sharp fixed or loose sliding rock.

[critta]

You could check out the leadvilles from luna sandals they are designed for more rugged trail with thicker soles than the regular luna's.

[Finnegans Wake]

...it's the Lairig Ghru trail race from Braemar to Aviemore in the Cairngorms.

That was gonna be my guess.

[PaulGDavis]

Hi,
Most barefoot trail shoes have soles that are a bit of a compromise so that they work on the road too. The Inov8 BareGrip 200 is a good example a true dedicated trail shoe with serious grip. But as you say the forefoot section is a bit narrow and the feet of people who have run in VFF have usually splayed nicely back to their natural shape and hence require a bit more width.

There is one proper barefoot shoe with a wide forefoot section and a proper grippy sole that you might be interested in which is the Vivobarefoot Breatho .

Regards
PAUL

[Wanderlust]

The spyridon looks crazy (in a good way) if anyone has run trails with them let me know. Otherwise for nastier trails out here I use the NB MT00. Got it because the US Army (in it's INFINITE wisdom) banned "toe shoes." It's been a great trail shoe, super light. Main draw back is it sucks on the road.

New Balance MT00 - YouTube

[UncleJ]

Hey Bananabonobo
Did I see you on the Lairig Ghru this weekend? I did it in the new VFF Spyridons - don't know my time but think it was around 5hrs. Were you one of the guys I chatted too afterwards re footwear? Anyhow, here's my take on Vibram's latest offering. They are good. Great, even. But not perfect. And I think the weather we had on the run really put them to the test. Good things: fantastic on the flat, and good grip on gnarly stuff going uphill. Really notice the difference in traction compared to my older TrekSports. The plate seems to do the trick in dispersing the impact of (small) rocks while not detracting from the barefoot-ness of the shoe. Not so good things: On slippery, rain-soaked larger rocks and boulders they fall short. And I came a cropper quite easily. This is especially scary on downhill, which slows you down due to the need to concentrate. However, this may be unfair as there is no shoe out there that could deal with this perfectly. But I lost confidence in the downhills. Very bad thing: I already had to send one pair back as they chafed holes into the insides of my feet after 10k. They were duly replaced with anew LS pair, which are the ones I wore on the LG. I had adequately broken them in with only minor rubbing (which I put down to them being new) but after the race on Sunday, my feet were pretty raw again in the same hotspots. Mind you, it was a loooong run. But I've never had that issue with the TrekSports. Could be the design, could be a sizing issue. Who knows? But according to the distributor Vibram in Italy are looking into it (maybe!) on the back of my initial complaint.

[Bananabonobo]

OMG Uncle J this is exactly the sort of info i was looking for - lairig ghru, spyridons. no, i wasn't there - i'm up in Shetland now for research season, but i did my best running the lairig ghru during that big thaw in march. two questions continuing on from your excellent info there - first, was it downhill steep grass you found them not quite right in? second, how well did you find the rock plates dispersed the ca. 15cm scree on the flats issue? (i found myself slowing for that often.)

and did you have similar problems on similarly loooooooong runs in your treks, or was it just the spyridons?

also! jesus, you're in scotland - where in HELL did you get spyridons?!

Hey Bananabonobo
Did I see you on the Lairig Ghru this weekend? I did it in the new VFF Spyridons - don't know my time but think it was around 5hrs. Were you one of the guys I chatted too afterwards re footwear? Anyhow, here's my take on Vibram's latest offering. They are good. Great, even. But not perfect. And I think the weather we had on the run really put them to the test. Good things: fantastic on the flat, and good grip on gnarly stuff going uphill. Really notice the difference in traction compared to my older TrekSports. The plate seems to do the trick in dispersing the impact of (small) rocks while not detracting from the barefoot-ness of the shoe. Not so good things: On slippery, rain-soaked larger rocks and boulders they fall short. And I came a cropper quite easily. This is especially scary on downhill, which slows you down due to the need to concentrate. However, this may be unfair as there is no shoe out there that could deal with this perfectly. But I lost confidence in the downhills. Very bad thing: I already had to send one pair back as they chafed holes into the insides of my feet after 10k. They were duly replaced with anew LS pair, which are the ones I wore on the LG. I had adequately broken them in with only minor rubbing (which I put down to them being new) but after the race on Sunday, my feet were pretty raw again in the same hotspots. Mind you, it was a loooong run. But I've never had that issue with the TrekSports. Could be the design, could be a sizing issue. Who knows? But according to the distributor Vibram in Italy are looking into it (maybe!) on the back of my initial complaint.

[UncleJ]

Hi,
Hope conditions for you in March were more clement than for us in June! No the downhills were on the rocky gnarly terrain after the Pools of Dee as you drop into the Rothiemurchus forest. It's the slipperiness that gets you basically. I didn't come across the scree as you describe. It was the hideous boulder field that really made you think twice. Could be inexperience with that type of stuff, but really slowed me down. On the flat, any stony material seemed to melt away under the new rock plates. But as I generally train on gravelly stuff, wearing a lot less on my feet, I may have become used to that kind of discomfort - so any protection would be cosy in comparison. I 'broke' the Spyridons in by doing a marathon distance over fairly benign terrain and they caused minimal discomfort although I could feel the rubbing coming on. In Treksports I've had no issues at all - but they are 42 and the Spyridons are 43. It took 2 years of wearing in the TrekSports until they expanded to comfortably fit my toes, though. They are now the perfect fit for me, but the soles are wearing out. Hence the Spyridons and hence the size up. My next step is to attack the Spyridons with a sharp implement (I have located the source of the rubbing as a seam join on the inside) to see if I can rectify this.
I'm actually based in Southern England and got them mail order from an outfit in Orpington called Baselayer. There is also an outlet in London that stock them, I think. All my previous VFFs had to be shipped in from vendors in the US. This is all very bizarre as my mother-in-law was on the original design team for Vibram in Italy - but I couldn't wangle any deal from her contacts!