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  1. #61
    jakey's Avatar
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    it's not that i have a problem with cold plunges or cold water, or big protein filled breakfasts, or yoking your light sensitivity to some levee terroir in some mystical quilt (okay, lying about that last one), but jack kruse is a joke. a ridiculous sad joke.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clabbergirl View Post
    I've not had any shivering at all, either during or after the bath. Is it not working as well without the shivering?
    Believe it or not, you may have stumbled onto something perfectly fine. There is an actual term "Non-shivering Thermogenesis". It may be better than shivering! Here is an excerpt from a study on NST: NON-SHIVERING THERMOGENESIS AND ITS THERMOREGULATORY SIGNIFICANCE - JANSK[] - 2008 - Biological Reviews - Wiley Online Library

    Summary
    1. Non-shivering thermogenesis (NST) is a heat-production mechanism participating in the chemical thermoregulation of mammals.

    2. NST is additional to shivering and takes place at temperatures close to the thermoneutral zone.

    3. NST occurs in newborn mammals and in those that hibernate. In some adult mammals it can be induced by adaptation to cold.

    4. In small mammals NST produces approximately the same amount of heat as shivering. It becomes less important with increasing body weight of the animals.

    5. NST is regulated by the hypothalamus and it is based predominantly on the calorigenic action of noradrenaline released from sympathetic nerve-endings.

    Participation of other calorigenic substances and of the specific dynamic action of food cannot be excluded.

    6. NST is localized mainly in skeletal muscles and in brown adipose tissue. Small amounts of NST may come from liver, intestine, heart and brain.

    7. The biochemical basis of the calorigenic action of noradrenaline has not yet been fully elucidated.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I think using CT just for weightloss is fine. It is actually a very effective way to increase 'calories out'. Since everyone here should be eating a paleo diet, even better for CTs ability to perform magic.

    It is obvious everyone who is making fun of this hasn't read any of the links I provided or done any looking beyond their nose. CT is going to explode on the scene in the next few years, I've already heard it mentioned on Dr. Oz and a simple search on Google or better yet, PubMed will show you the science behind this.

    That said, it's not for everybody. My wife would kill me if I turned my house thermostat down to 55.
    HAHAHA... I would join you in your 55 degree house! DH keeps jacking up the thermostat to like 68! I keep turning it down...this is a FIRST in our relationship!!! for the First time in my life I'm hot all the time... I look fwd to my Spot CT sessions after bkfst... and my baths when I can get them in in the evenings after the kiddos have gone to bed.

    Question for those who've been CTing a while - have you seen any changes in your sex drive? mine for a while were all over the place, but insync w/my cycle - now my drive has kinda plateaued... Definitely hormone related... And while I started BHRT I don't think 3days is enough to impact this... any thoughts???
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  4. #64
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    you didnt say if it is up or down but remember gretch that the first 3 days for me were normal and then i hit the wall bad. anything that required testosterone was DOA for a week.

    after clearing the estrogen flood i am back to two or three a days.

    gotta clear the pipes no matter your gender
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  5. #65
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    HOLD IT. This is chronic thermo! Just eat less, folks.
    Knifegill - I don't mind you poking fun at this, because at first, I thought it was a ridiculous concept (get cold=burn 10 more calories) but it is WAY MORE than that. It involves Uncoupling Proteins (UCP-1) which create a huge impact on metabolism, far longer than the time exposed to cold. I encourage you to read up on it. Go to Google Scholar and type in Cold Thermogenesis Obesity. You will find cites like this:PLoS ONE: Human Skeletal Muscle Mitochondrial Uncoupling Is Associated with Cold Induced Adaptive Thermogenesis

    Background
    Mild cold exposure and overfeeding are known to elevate energy expenditure in mammals, including humans. This process is called adaptive thermogenesis. In small animals, adaptive thermogenesis is mainly caused by mitochondrial uncoupling in brown adipose tissue and regulated via the sympathetic nervous system. In humans, skeletal muscle is a candidate tissue, known to account for a large part of the epinephrine-induced increase in energy expenditure. However, mitochondrial uncoupling in skeletal muscle has not extensively been studied in relation to adaptive thermogenesis in humans. Therefore we hypothesized that cold-induced adaptive thermogenesis in humans is accompanied by an increase in mitochondrial uncoupling in skeletal muscle.

    Methodology/Principal Findings
    The metabolic response to mild cold exposure in 11 lean, male subjects was measured in a respiration chamber at baseline and mild cold exposure. Skeletal muscle mitochondrial uncoupling (state 4) was measured in muscle biopsies taken at the end of the respiration chamber stays. Mild cold exposure caused a significant increase in 24h energy expenditure of 2.8% (0.32 MJ/day, range of −0.21 to 1.66 MJ/day, p<0.05). The individual increases in energy expenditure correlated to state 4 respiration (p<0.02, R2 = 0.50).

    Conclusions/Significance
    This study for the first time shows that in humans, skeletal muscle has the intrinsic capacity for cold induced adaptive thermogenesis via mitochondrial uncoupling under physiological conditions. This opens possibilities for mitochondrial uncoupling as an alternative therapeutic target in the treatment of obesity

  6. #66
    Ealachan's Avatar
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    I have a CT question for you guys. I'm just starting, and I'm doing face plunges to acclimate. What should I be shooting for in terms of duration of sessions? Last night my skin was cherry red after three plunges (holding as long as I could hold my breath), and then I did another one, because I'm a little masochistic (kidding...mostly). I know most of you time your cold baths or your icing sessions. Should I be timing my plunge sessions too, or is it just a matter of doing as much as I can stand?

    Unrelated to my question, but totally related to the topic: I used to swim all the time as a kid - cold water, warm water, didn't matter, I was "half fish", as my parents used to say. I still have very vivid memories of the delicious shivery tiredness that hours in the pool or pond would cause. I never really understood it until I started reading about how CT works, then it suddenly all made sense! I'm not sure if it's the inner GEEK in me or the inner KID in me that is more excited about this process.
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  7. #67
    otzi's Avatar
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    Found an even more awesome study! There is a chart showing the increase in metabolic rate as ambient temp goes down, I couldn't post the graph, but this is the legend just to get you excited... The whole sudy is at: http://journals.cambridge.org/produc...textid=6406180 "Fig. 5. Cold-induced thermogenesis in man; the effect of ambient
    temperature on metabolic rate in naked adult male subjects. Values
    are means for five subjects; the BMR of each subject is set to 100.
    The subjects increased their metabolism by cycling sufficiently on
    an ergometer to avoid goose pimples or shivering. (Adapted after
    Erikson et al.(13).)"
    Last edited by otzi; 03-13-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    you didnt say if it is up or down but remember gretch that the first 3 days for me were normal and then i hit the wall bad. anything that required testosterone was DOA for a week.

    after clearing the estrogen flood i am back to two or three a days.

    gotta clear the pipes no matter your gender
    Just saw your sig. Regardless of whether it works or not, Kruse is not paleo. He is textbook transhumanism. It's not a value judgement, it's just a matter of accuracy.

  9. #69
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealachan View Post
    I have a CT question for you guys. I'm just starting, and I'm doing face plunges to acclimate. What should I be shooting for in terms of duration of sessions? Last night my skin was cherry red after three plunges (holding as long as I could hold my breath), and then I did another one, because I'm a little masochistic (kidding...mostly). I know most of you time your cold baths or your icing sessions. Should I be timing my plunge sessions too, or is it just a matter of doing as much as I can stand?

    Unrelated to my question, but totally related to the topic: I used to swim all the time as a kid - cold water, warm water, didn't matter, I was "half fish", as my parents used to say. I still have very vivid memories of the delicious shivery tiredness that hours in the pool or pond would cause. I never really understood it until I started reading about how CT works, then it suddenly all made sense! I'm not sure if it's the inner GEEK in me or the inner KID in me that is more excited about this process.
    I have the same memories of swimming in 'freezing' pond water as a kid in Ohio. As to the face plunges, I don't know that you need to overthink it. It is just meant as an adaptive step to prepare you for full-on cold baths. It activates the 'mammalian dive reflex' which preps your body for what is about to come. It constricts vessels and redirects blood flow among other things. According to this study, 12-40 seconds is enough. Please read more here: The human dive reflex: An experimental, topographical and physiological analysis 10.1016/0031-9384(86)90018-1 : Physiology & Behavior | ScienceDirect.com
    Last edited by otzi; 03-13-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Predator View Post
    Just saw your sig. Regardless of whether it works or not, Kruse is not paleo. He is textbook transhumanism. It's not a value judgement, it's just a matter of accuracy.
    Neither is Ray Cronise or Wim Hof. But their thoughts on CT only add to the Paleo/Primal experience!

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