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  1. #611
    KA24's Avatar
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    I'm going to try the 35 degree or so soak, whatever I can get it above freezing. Some questions...

    1. Pre-CT meal? I generally consume a lot of fat. Eggs, MCT Oil, Coconut Oil and have even done Bulletproof Coffee.
    2. How long in for the first time? I'd say my tolerance is high, I've done 40-50 degree soaks before.
    3. Best advice to sustain temperature? Make the house as cold as possible, close all doors, how much ice for a standard tub?

    I'm going to shoot for tonight or tomorrow. Input appreciated!

  2. #612
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    Thanks for the feedback y'all. I am up to page 20 of the thread now.

    Have read things like - CT makes you hungry, really hungry, 2-4 hours afterwards. I have also read it makes you sleepy? I would think it would make you wide awake, but I am guessing the sleepy part comes a bit later after trying to re-warm? So I was thinking of doing it in the evenings, then going to bed within an hour or two. So that might mean I wont be able to IF through breakfast, I dont know. Or maybe just eat an early lunch and then earlier supper.

    I also read to hold off the meat/proteins/fats for the meal if you do eat 2 - 4 hours afterwards. If I swim with the kids in the afternoon, I could eat my meat at lunch, then swim, then lighter supper. That may or may not get me through till lunch the next day. I am not sure how cold the pond is, but pretty cold at the moment. I dont see doing it by myself in the wee early morning hours. DH leaves at 4 sometimes. I dont see him doing it with me at that time either.

    But I am going to start in my tub this evening. My cooking thermometer only goes to 100. Wonder how low the temperature thermometer goes? Guess I will find out later

    Someone wrote that they wash up with a little warm, then add cold water. I think I will go that route for this first time. I think I also read that even 80 is good. My tap is 52 or something? Well water and pretty darn cold all the time. I just took my measurements the other day but I am going to do them again. Will keep you posted

  3. #613
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    gopintos, I've found the hunger/sleepiness stuff to be very individual. I don't get hungry after CT. I usually eat a huge fat meal before, upwards of 700-1000 calories mostly from fat. Maybe this contributes, I don't know. I also CT at night. Usually 2-3 hours before normal bedtime. Maybe this is why I end up being sleepy. However, I've never experienced either rabid hunger but always get tired. Whether that's actually the CT or the other circumstances, I don't know. However, I'd recommend it to anyone willing to try it. Whether that means significant metabolic issues, weight to lose or just someone wanting to build on progress they have already made.

  4. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefox View Post
    Diet and exercise are certainly more effective than CT (although I am interested in how a combination of all three would work - going even stricter on diet, harder/softer on exercise, and adding in CT).

    Exercise is a hormetic stressor when in the right intensity and frequency. When overdone, it is simply stressful and damages the body. Cold is a hormetic stressor when in the right intensity and frequency. When overdone, it is also stressful - as was pointed out, it spikes adrenaline and thus cortisol. If you're taking a 45min ice bath, that's around the point that Mark says it's too much running.

    It is a myth that fat cells are immortal. Fat cells have life cycles like all other cells in the body - spot-icing kills them, certainly, but so does diet/exercise.

    So CT works, but so does diet and exercise. Extremely cold stuff is in no way necessary to get past a plateau. Mild cold + ketogenic diet may add up to the beneficial effects of very cold CT, whilst saving yourself from the negatives.
    Huzzah for sanity and rational thinking! Yes, a 45 minute ice bath is like chronic cardio.

  5. #615
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    Diet/exercise has been tried billions of times. We all know people who have contributed to that "billion" and have seen no success. If they now have another option that may work, I don't see how that is a bad thing. CT isn't for everyone. Neither is strength training. Or cardio. Or any type of diet. The more options the better.

  6. #616
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KA24 View Post
    I'm going to try the 35 degree or so soak, whatever I can get it above freezing. Some questions...

    1. Pre-CT meal? I generally consume a lot of fat. Eggs, MCT Oil, Coconut Oil and have even done Bulletproof Coffee.
    2. How long in for the first time? I'd say my tolerance is high, I've done 40-50 degree soaks before.
    3. Best advice to sustain temperature? Make the house as cold as possible, close all doors, how much ice for a standard tub?

    I'm going to shoot for tonight or tomorrow. Input appreciated!
    1. I've never given much thought to pre-CT eating, really, but people say a fat-heavy meal is best.
    2. For first time, I'd do like 10-15 minutes max, then warm the water up to between 50 and 70 and finish up with another 10-20 minutes. Make sure someone knows what you are doing. You don't want to get hypothermia. But if you've done 40-50 degrees already you should be fine.
    3. Not sure what you are asking. If your tap water is in the 60's, you may need a lot of ice depending on tub size. 50lbs or so.

    Let us know what you think!

  7. #617
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    50lbs of ice... haha I guess I wont be taking xtreme colds with my 5 ice cube trays haha My tap will be about all I can stand I am quite certain. I thought when I ordered my frig, it had an icemaker.

    Will save the ice for my spot CT. I think my daughter upstairs might have some ice packs in her frig.

    OH, grandson wants to go do something outside. I asked him if he wants to go to the beach (at our pond) ... so off we go. I doubt I jump in right now but it is a tempting thought. He just asked me if it was warm enough to swim. He is just now telling me that if it isnt, he will have to do what he always does, which is go to the end of the beach, and just run in. He doesnt care how cold it is haha

  8. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefox View Post
    Thanks! I went on a research-binge after I discovered MDA, and have wanted to get more involved with this place ever since. Lovin' all the cool discussions going on - currently in college, and thinking this "being healthy" thing may become a profession. Suffice to say, I'll be around
    You probably already know this, but Google Scholar is awesome. You can sort by date, etc... If you look at BAT studies, you'll see what I mean about a change in attitude the past few years. Almost everything prior to 2009 says adults have no BAT and it's not a factor. 2010 and later studies, especially involving PET scans show we all have some BAT. I just wish there were an easy way for the normal person to determine if and how much they have. You could probably get a PhD with that as your thesis.

    The stuff you mentioned about uncoupling proteins is also of great interest to many. UCP-1 is only found in BAT while UCP-2,3,4,5 are found in skeletal muscles. Not much is known about UCP-2,3,4,5.

    There is a chemical called DNP that was found to uncouple the mitochondrial heat cycle that was used as an obesity cure in the 30's, but alas, it also blinded the user. From 2,4-Dinitrophenol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "DNP was used extensively in diet pills from 1933 to 1938 after Cutting and Tainter at Stanford University made their first report on the drug's ability to greatly increase metabolic rate.[3][4] After only its first year on the market Tainter estimated that probably at least 100,000 persons had been treated with DNP in the United States, in addition to many others abroad.[5] DNP acts as a protonophore, allowing protons to leak across the inner mitochondrial membrane and thus bypass ATP synthase. This makes ATP energy production less efficient. In effect, part of the energy that is normally produced from cellular respiration is wasted as heat. The inefficiency is proportional to the dose of DNP that is taken. As the dose increases and energy production is made more inefficient, metabolic rate increases (and more fat is burned) in order to compensate for the inefficiency and meet energy demands. DNP is probably the best known agent for uncoupling oxidative phosphorylation. The production or "phosphorylation" of ATP by ATP synthase gets disconnected or "uncoupled" from oxidation. Interestingly, the factor that limits ever-increasing doses of DNP is not a lack of ATP energy production, but rather an excessive rise in body temperature due to the heat produced during uncoupling. Accordingly, DNP overdose will cause fatal hyperthermia. In light of this, it's advised that the dose be slowly titrated according to personal tolerance, which varies greatly.[6] Case reports have shown that an acute administration of 20–50 mg/kg in humans can be lethal.[7] Concerns about dangerous side-effects and rapidly developing cataracts resulted in DNP being discontinued in the United States by the end of 1938. DNP, however, continues to be used by some bodybuilders and athletes to rapidly lose body fat. Fatal overdoses are rare, but are still reported on occasion. These include cases of accidental exposure,[8] suicide,[7][9][10] and excessive intentional exposure.[9][11][12]

  9. #619
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    Going to plan on it tonight. My only concern is my thermometer is broken and my new one hasn't shipped. That's why I asked about the temperature. Normally I don't care, I just throw the ice I have with my ice packs and whatever temperature it's at, that's fine. However, I want to make sure I get it low enough tonight.

  10. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Let her Coolsculpt and you use ice packs and compare the results for us.
    ah she said it was Thermage and it is heat based. Maybe she will try the ice packs now

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