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  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMITHR View Post
    How long did it take you to go from, say 50 degree water, down to 32-35 degrees? I’d like to gauge my progress, make sure I’m not pushing myself too hard.

    I’ve been trying CT for almost 3 weeks, in the 52 degrees/30-40 minutes range. I made the jump a couple of days ago to 45 degrees/40 minutes.

    I thought 7 degrees colder would be no big deal, but it is huge.
    I dabbled in 50-70 degree water for about 2-3 months before I tried 32 degree water.

    If I could start over, I would do 70 degree once, 60 degree once, then 50 degrees about 5 times. After that, I would fill a tub--or cooler--with icecubes and water and stand or sit in it for just a few minutes.

    After experiencing 32 degree water, you will never have to experience anything colder than that (unless you deep sea dive in the antarctic). Now that you know what 32 degree water feels like, you can judge your progress as to when you are brave enough to take a 32 degree soak.

    The first time I did it, I filled the tub with cold water and ice until it was about 35 degrees, I sat as submerged as I could in it for about 10-15 minutes, then pulled the plug and turned on full hot until it got up to 50 degrees, then soaked there for 30 more minutes.

    The next night, I got the water to 32.5 degrees and sat in it for 30 minutes. The 3rd night I did 45 minutes. Since then, I have done 33-35 degrees 7 or 8 times, like every couple weeks just to keep it fresh in my mind.

    What I found in 33 degree water: You don't shiver at all until 20-30 minutes after you are out and dry off. This is because your body shuts off all peripheral blood flow to protect the core organs from hypothermia. When you get out and warm up, the cold blood from your limbs and skin get into your core and induce a shivering response. With 70 degree water, you don't experience vaso-constriction and the cooled blood flows freely to your core causing instant shivering.

    Also, 33 degree water tightens all exposed skin in a way that will blow your mind. Look at your kneecaps when you are in there, they are like leather pads with strange divots and dimples that I still can't quite figure out. Your skin will turn a cheery pink. Fat cells exposed to this temp for very long will literally kill themselves as the fat congeals and destroys itself--this is called apoptosis and occurs at a temperature just above freezing. Temps at freezing or below will kill skin and tissue (frostbite), but temps just above freezing will kill subcutaneous fat. This is how Zetiq works.

    Sorry for the novel...

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMITHR View Post
    How long did it take you to go from, say 50 degree water, down to 32-35 degrees? I’d like to gauge my progress, make sure I’m not pushing myself too hard.

    I’ve been trying CT for almost 3 weeks, in the 52 degrees/30-40 minutes range. I made the jump a couple of days ago to 45 degrees/40 minutes.

    I thought 7 degrees colder would be no big deal, but it is huge.
    You will know.

    when you cant get you rskin temps down below 50 without lowering the temp.

    when you are bored when you think about 50F water.

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  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by KA24 View Post
    My reasoning for training afterward is just experimental. I stumbled upon it, like I've posted, after casually picking up some weights about 10 minutes after a CT session (enough time to get out of the tub, let myself air dry and walk downstairs). I picked up the weights and just felt "stronger." I did a few sets of exercises that I generally know my maximum capacity (push-ups) and was able to sustain the exercise with more endurance (in this case, 45 straight push-ups when generally I'm around 35 until failure). This was a big difference in something you don't normally see strength gains with that big of a margin. That is why I have continued these N=1 experiments.

    To really take it seriously, I need to take better record of maximum capacity on certain lifts to failure both before and after CT, and control for factors such as the time of the CT and meals consumed prior. I usually take coconut oil, MCT oil and a high dose of fat before CT, which does cause a thermogenic response but might also contribute to better performance from the direct energy from MCT's post-CT. I ignored this factor at the beginning because I usually use MCT's in some form as a pre-workout, but again, this is very loosely controlled.

    I'd love to see others try this though because I really do think there is a window after CT where I am capable of more work output in the weightroom. If this can be used for additional health benefits in-terms of gaining muscle or getting stronger, a lot more people would be willing to undertake CT.
    A lot of gyms have tubs of 40 degree water for post-workout recovery. Never really heard of anyone doing it before hand, but if it works that's awesome.

    Last winter, I was working out -- treadmill sprints, weighted squats, pushups, pullups -- in an unheated garage around 40 degrees and also doing pullups outside in really cold temps (down to -20F). I notice in those temps, my muscles are really tight, I guess from the body trying to keep warm. I posted some personal best pullups that I haven't matched since in frigid temps. So, there is probably merit to what you are doing. I've heard Lance Armstrong rides a stationary bike in a walk-in freezer to train. But that may be BS.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    You will know.

    when you cant get you rskin temps down below 50 without lowering the temp.

    when you are bored when you think about 50F water.
    Dead-on! I had to wean myself off the 32 degree water because it's so addicting. Definitely won't get bored and actually get a adrenalin rush just thinking about it. As the tub fills and the thermometer starts showing 30's, it's like standing on the edge of a bridge getting ready to bungee jump.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Dead-on! I had to wean myself off the 32 degree water because it's so addicting. Definitely won't get bored and actually get a adrenalin rush just thinking about it. As the tub fills and the thermometer starts showing 30's, it's like standing on the edge of a bridge getting ready to bungee jump.
    I feel like i am being lazy if there isnt ice before i get in and after i get out.

    if the water was around 50 i think i wasted the water.
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  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    I feel like i am being lazy if there isnt ice before i get in and after i get out.

    if the water was around 50 i think i wasted the water.
    What are your experiences with shivering while using really cold water?

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyAl View Post
    It is time to put down the Kool-aid. Mark didn't say anything about temperature for CT. The study he cited used 61 degree temps. As far as I can tell Mark has little to no personal experience with CT. Mark did some reading pulled some studies and put together a well thought out blog post that has no real world results in it. Take it as some good source information but the article was little more then that.

    On this topic you have no idea if more is not better.
    I couldn't agree more. And I have no "kool-aid factor" when it comes to Mark. I was only citing his write up about it because otzi waved it in my face as the ultimate "I told you so" proof (only half jokingly ). No, I don't know if more is better but until I see some results that do say so, ice baths seem extreme *to me*.

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I had to wean myself off the 32 degree water because it's so addicting. Definitely won't get bored and actually get a adrenalin rush just thinking about it. As the tub fills and the thermometer starts showing 30's, it's like standing on the edge of a bridge getting ready to bungee jump.
    Does no one else understand why this statement should make sane people concerned?

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I couldn't agree more. And I have no "kool-aid factor" when it comes to Mark. I was only citing his write up about it because otzi waved it in my face as the ultimate "I told you so" proof (only half jokingly ). No, I don't know if more is better but until I see some results that do say so, ice baths seem extreme *to me*.
    Well I would direct you over to Ray Cronise but his website has a lot of theoretical information and very little practical application which is very confusing for a site that promotes CT. I am on board with ice baths being out there and questionable in practicality or common sense. I can get cold enough to shiver with just tap water in the shower. From my understanding cold adaptation is anything that forces a response is good enough. Then of course is the spot icing for adipose tissue apoptosis. So many unknowns with all of this.
    Check out my primal blog: http://primalroar.posterous.com/

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyAl View Post
    Well I would direct you over to Ray Cronise but his website has a lot of theoretical information and very little practical application which is very confusing for a site that promotes CT. I am on board with ice baths being out there and questionable in practicality or common sense. I can get cold enough to shiver with just tap water in the shower. From my understanding cold adaptation is anything that forces a response is good enough. Then of course is the spot icing for adipose tissue apoptosis. So many unknowns with all of this.
    Kind of like the PB 'Laws' ie., Vegetable Oil is Bad; Grains are Bad; etc... The things I am convinced that are factual and well-studied concerning cold are:

    1. Temperatures below thermoneutral (approx 68 deg air or 90 deg water) activate BAT.
    2. Chronic exposure to these temperatures promote recruitment of new BAT
    3. Temperatures that don't cause shivering are best when BAT is your primary concern.
    4. Anti-inflammatory/muscle recovery effects of cold are best seen in extremely cold water.
    5. Fat apoptosis occurs between 33-35 degrees.


    The term cold-thermogenesis really only pertains to the body generating heat in response to a cold stimulus. The 32 degree soaks aren't really a part of cold-thermogenesis, although I feel it aids in BAT growth and recruitment. I think it's real benefit is fat cell destruction and systemic anti-inflammatory actions.

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