Page 56 of 70 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 560 of 698

Thread: Cold Thermogenesis Guidelines/Results page 56

  1. #551
    Acuosuo's Avatar
    Acuosuo is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Madagascar
    Posts
    1

    you are right

    Shop Now
    thats Great thanks

  2. #552
    BestBetter's Avatar
    BestBetter is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NY / Italy
    Posts
    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Here is the patent application for a home-use device to "remove heat from subcutaneous lipid rich cells" by the company Zeltiq. Basically a way to kill fat cells with temps that don't kill skin and tissue.

    Patent US20110238051 - HOME-USE APPLICATORS FOR NON-INVASIVELY REMOVING HEAT FROM SUBCUTANEOUS ... - Google Patents

    People will happily shell out thousands for this while Mommagrok laughs her ass off!
    I was reading in some of these links on cryliposys that the patentented 'Zeliq' method uses gel pads set to a 'special' temperature to prevent skin/tissue damage. While I think this is just marketing to keep people from realizing they can do this at home with some $0.99 freezer packs, it did get me wondering if there is the slightest chance that using regular freezer packs directly on skin could possiblly cause some damage. I've been doing it now for close to a week without seeing any negative affects, so I probaby answered my own question, but does anyone know if there's a time limit or a temperature limit for prevventing damage other than to the fat cells?
    Last edited by BestBetter; 05-31-2012 at 05:33 AM.

  3. #553
    MamaGrok's Avatar
    MamaGrok is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    atl
    Posts
    4,703
    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    In 2009, researchers reported a 22% reduction in "love handles" on the side treated with cryolipolysis, compared with the side with no treatment at 4 months in an unpublished study with 32 participants.
    Thanks for sparing me from having just one unsightly love handle!


    Yes, you CAN do skin damage with freezer packs, although it's unlikely to progress beyond the cold equivalent of sunburn since you're likely to notice it before it does.

    As Kruse mentions, always check skin color periodically. It should be pink or red, not turning white. If it does turn white (or feel papery, etc.), stop the application immediately, gently warm it (like with your hand), and lay off that area for a week. IOW, much like how you would treat skin that has been sunburned. I mention this b/c a lot of people panic when this happens. No, this IS NOT frostbite anymore than a mild or even painful sunburn is likely to destroy your skin forever the way a third degree burn could. There is a scale of damage, and if you pay attention to the warning signs (skin color, pain...) you will be hard-pressed to move to anything anywhere remotely approaching permanent damage.)

    Also, for some reason, alcohol packs (the flexible ones) seem to cause freezer burn more easily. Maybe it's the increased surface area contact?

    And as always with ice packs for any reason, put a cloth between you and the pack, at least the first few days, and perhaps the first few minutes of each additional session, with any given spot. (I had gotten used to doing without cloth on my belly, and put a pack on my hip, forgetting it wasn't accustomed to spot icing yet, and got paper skin pretty fast, which turned into a bruise a day later and took a few days to recover fully ... again, much like sunburn.)
    5'4" 36yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
    Starting: 185 lbs (March '10)
    Current: 132.5 lbs
    Goal: 135 lbs (Hit Jan '13)
    Beating bingeing since 10/31/11 on my Leptin Reset journey

  4. #554
    otzi's Avatar
    otzi Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I was reading in some of these links on cryliposys that the patentented 'Zeliq' method uses gel pads set to a 'special' temperature to prevent skin/tissue damage. While I think this is just marketing to keep people from realizing they can do this at home with some $0.99 freezer packs, it did get me wondering if there is the slightest chance that using regular freezer packs directly on skin could possiblly cause some damage. I've been doing it now for close to a week without seeing any negative affects, so I probaby answered my own question, but does anyone know if there's a time limit or a temperature limit for prevventing damage other than to the fat cells?
    I really liked using large ziplock bags filled with ice cubes and a little water. This seemed to keep the temperature a steady 33-35 degrees. I left it in one area for 20-30 minutes at a time and never had any problems with frostbite. I think the freezer packs are capable of getting much colder and you'll need a buffer between them and the skin.

    I iced my belly daily for about 2 weeks in March. When I started my waist measurement was 35". After 2 weeks, my waist measurement was still 35", maybe even a little more, but within 6 weeks I was down to 33". Now, about 10 weeks later, I seem to have stabilized at 32". I plan on doing it again later this summer.

    What happens is that you actually damage the fat cell to the point that it kills itself and is slowly absorbed into the body. Sounds like BS, but Zeltiq knows it and is getting rich. Fat cells freeze at a warmer temperature than skin and tissue, and once they freeze and undergo apoptosis, they are gone forever. Dieting alone only shrinks the fat cells who then lurk in the shadows waiting for those 'cheat days' to fill up.
    Last edited by otzi; 05-31-2012 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #555
    otzi's Avatar
    otzi Guest

    Redemption!

    Is Brown Fat Good For You? | Mark's Daily Apple

    Hey, Paleobird - Are you a believer now? (sorry, couldn't resist)

    "Humans, even those living in cold climates, are rarely exposed to the cold weather. They sleep in heated homes, drive in heated cars, shop in heated department stores, and bundle up with multiple layers for those fleeting moments spent outdoors. It’s even been proposed that the advent of central heating is related to obesity. I suspect that the total amount of human BAT also depends on chronic exposure to cold, especially since one study (PDF) showed that outdoor workers have more BAT than indoor workers. Acute exposure activates, chronic exposure creates." - Mark Sisson
    Last edited by otzi; 05-31-2012 at 08:36 AM.

  6. #556
    BestBetter's Avatar
    BestBetter is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NY / Italy
    Posts
    1,209
    Thanks, MamaGrok and Otzi for answering my questions. I have a few more!

    So I'm doing the cold showers for a variety of health benefit reasons, but the spot icing is purely to reduce areas of stubborn fat (and abdominal inflammation reduction would be great, too!) My questions are:

    Since what I've read about the Zeltiq states that they use a one-time application, which then takes 2-4 months for the fat cells to be destroyed and consumed by lymph cells, do you think that spot-icing daily (which I'm doing) is either unnecessary or excessive? MamaGrok, I seem to remember you mention that you spot-iced repeatedly, which probably answers my own question again, but just wanted to see what you folks thought of this.

    Also, since I'm trying to reduce inflammation (both systemic and localized) does it seem wise to spot ice, since it seems that this produces an inflammatory response to the destroyed/dissolved fat?

    And if someone has a crappy detox system, as I suspect I do (I've been reading that peeps with chronic fatigue syndrome have a detox system that is more or less in failure), how do you think that person would respond to CT? I'm a little worried about upping both the free-floating toxins in my body while simulateously increasing temporary inflammation. I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance.

    And lastly, since I also suspect that I am experiencing mitochondrial failure (I'm taking steps to imrove this, but it's a slow process) which means that my mitochondra aren't producing ATP efficiently or fast enough, do you think CT is likely to help or hinder the ATP energy production process?

    That was a lot! The more i learn about something, the more questions I have. I wish I could be a profesional question-asker.

  7. #557
    MamaGrok's Avatar
    MamaGrok is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    atl
    Posts
    4,703
    dunno (I think zeltiq has a special technique, but dunno), dunno (but would suspect it's not a problem for inflammation), and my chronic fatigue has LIFTED and I've detoxed heavily (although most of my detox took place during GAPS, some picked up again with CT). When you expect detox, take detox baths and learn to use activated charcoal. Wonderful things! (1-2C of epsom salts, unrefined sea salt, baking soda, or ACV in a tub of warm water, or some have tried dissolving it in less water, then adding to cold bath; dunno if it works)
    5'4" 36yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
    Starting: 185 lbs (March '10)
    Current: 132.5 lbs
    Goal: 135 lbs (Hit Jan '13)
    Beating bingeing since 10/31/11 on my Leptin Reset journey

  8. #558
    otzi's Avatar
    otzi Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    Thanks, MamaGrok and Otzi for answering my questions. I have a few more!

    So I'm doing the cold showers for a variety of health benefit reasons, but the spot icing is purely to reduce areas of stubborn fat (and abdominal inflammation reduction would be great, too!) My questions are:

    Since what I've read about the Zeltiq states that they use a one-time application, which then takes 2-4 months for the fat cells to be destroyed and consumed by lymph cells, do you think that spot-icing daily (which I'm doing) is either unnecessary or excessive? MamaGrok, I seem to remember you mention that you spot-iced repeatedly, which probably answers my own question again, but just wanted to see what you folks thought of this.

    Also, since I'm trying to reduce inflammation (both systemic and localized) does it seem wise to spot ice, since it seems that this produces an inflammatory response to the destroyed/dissolved fat?

    And if someone has a crappy detox system, as I suspect I do (I've been reading that peeps with chronic fatigue syndrome have a detox system that is more or less in failure), how do you think that person would respond to CT? I'm a little worried about upping both the free-floating toxins in my body while simulateously increasing temporary inflammation. I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance.

    And lastly, since I also suspect that I am experiencing mitochondrial failure (I'm taking steps to imrove this, but it's a slow process) which means that my mitochondra aren't producing ATP efficiently or fast enough, do you think CT is likely to help or hinder the ATP energy production process?

    That was a lot! The more i learn about something, the more questions I have. I wish I could be a profesional question-asker.
    I am going to answer without any links to studies, but I may come back and edit some in later...

    1. I think daily spot icing is better than the one-time Zeltiq method. For removal of fat cells, one-time treatments will work, but the daily ice-packs give you the 'chronic cold exposure' that you need to activate BAT and get you 'cold adapted', ie. shiver less, reduced blood pressure, improved vaso-constriction.

    2. Good question; I think if you combined spot-icing with cold baths you would be better off. The whole-body immersion in cold water has known anti-inflammatory effects. When I was spot icing, I never noticed any inflammation in the area, but in retrospect, there must have been some. The body's natural reaction to cell damage is inflammation. I'd say, spot-ice and be mindful of systemic inflammation via your diet and whole-body CT.

    3. Detox - I was a non-believer until I saw it with my own eyes. I had zits and a runny nose for the first 2 weeks I tried really cold baths (35 deg F). Never had this with 50-70 deg baths. I think this detox effect of CT is a good thing in any case.

    4. Mitochondrial failure...don't know what to say except the basic principal behind the whole cold thermogenesis effect is the uncoupling of mitochondrial action via the Kreb's Cycle to produce heat without ATP. This is done with uncoupling protein 1 (UCP-1) in the BAT or muscles. Seems like a good thing if you are wanting to upregulate cell function.

  9. #559
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    79
    Last night toward the end of my shower after i had finished washing up I decided to try cold. I slowly turned the water down. It wasn't straight cold, but it was pretty close. I did the same thing this morning, starting my shower temperature as cold as I left it off for a few minutes. It was rough.

  10. #560
    otzi's Avatar
    otzi Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Call Me Twitchy View Post
    Last night toward the end of my shower after i had finished washing up I decided to try cold. I slowly turned the water down. It wasn't straight cold, but it was pretty close. I did the same thing this morning, starting my shower temperature as cold as I left it off for a few minutes. It was rough.
    I've sat in 32 degree water full of ice cubes for 45 minutes, swam in water 45 degrees, and jogged barefoot in the snow--all were easier than a cold tap-water shower! I hate cold showers. I am really impressed by people who can take cold showers, I think they are very therapeutic, I just can't take it...

Page 56 of 70 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •