Cold Thermogenesis Guidelines/Results page 2

[Croak]

Quelsen, he's 24, and therefore he suffers from the disease of youth, which is also called "certitude".

[otzi]

I would have left Dr. Kruse' name out if I'd known it would polarize the discussion. Can we stick to the topic?

Anyway, for all the Calories In-Calories Out people, CT is a HUGE way we can effect 'calories out'. No?

[Shijin13]

I heard of the disease of age, it is called, "I think I know more because I have lived longer. I have no proof, but I know more than you."

Back to topic, Thermogenesis did help me break a plateau this winter with just cold air exposure. I seem to have a hard time adopting it any other way however. I currently have a very hard time staying warm as soon as the sun sets, and would like to be able to be the little heating unit I used to be as a child.

What did some of you guys do in order to get yourself acclimated? For instance, how many seconds do you think a person should force themselves to stay in the cold shower the first time? From then on, how would you progress?

I started w/spot CT - using ice/gel packs on my torso all the way around - I kinda skipped the face/ice thing; but have considered bring that into play on the days I can't do a 3hr spot therapy session... I try to at least 1 night a week get in the tub for 30-40mins, using Croak's method of sitting in a small amt of warm water, and slowly add cold water...very easy... I'll do another one tonight...

showers didn't do anything for me...

Start w/the face dunks...then move to the bath; if you need to maximize time/efficiency spot CT w/Ice packs/gels

[Apex Predator]

Maybe I'm not a good reader, but most of what Kruse writes strikes me as borderline incomprehensible. I feel like he might have some good points - perhaps even some research based opinions - but if this useful information is indeed in their somewhere, his posts (at least the ones I've read) fail to communicate it in a remotely convincing way.

Pretty much everyone who doesn't worship him agrees with you(whether neutral or against). Amazingly, he apparently is incredibly easy to understand in person.

[Apex Predator]

Uncephalized - I "think" you are an average healthy individual. Kruse may have nothing to offer you.

Kruse may also be rather scatterbrained in his approach but if you read him enough you realize his real goal is life extension and not health per se. Health is a precursor to life extension in his view of the world and if you happen to get healthy along the way so be it.

I have a freind who has known me for 15 years and he has seen me struggle all that time with uncontrollable weight gain. only in the last two years has he seen this stop and finally reverse.
Year one was HCG. i removed 130 pounds using that tool as designed by Dr Simeons. however something stopped working and I began to slowly gain weight again on a Paleo template. Enter Kruse.

Dr Kruse gave specific form to concepts that I was struggling with, that i had encountered but didnt have the science for and due to the general failure of MD's everywhere I kept running into brick walls for. I am not saying Kruse is right for everyone but Kruse pointed me in the right direction when i ALREADY HAD the data

What people need to understand about Kruse wont really come clear without a person like myself. ( i hat to admit this honestly) someone who can step down his transformer. there is possibly a better person to do it , but i do my best.
Understand the role of the Hypothalamus Pituitary axis in the body and you begin to get kruse. Understand the need for proper genetic DNA expression and you start to get kruse. Understand the degenerative actions of the SAD on those who are already compromised due to epigenetics and you get kruse.

If you are genetically normative, or if your parents and grand parents were, if your mom skipped the formula class and gave you tit then you may not need a word he says.

If you lucked into good clean living you probably dont need kruse.

IF however you missed that boat OR you are really hurting you need his thinking. and honestly a good Sisson and a watered down Kruse will probably leave a 18 year old male in his prime forever.


But he does sound bonkers if you dont need him. I for one am glad he is around to sound bonkers... it helped me put real clinical data to my n = 1

If anything Kruse advocates helps someone, I'm very happy for them.

What worries me is that he continues to add things faster and faster to his protocol, and his followers don't question it. In situations like that, it only take one or two mistakes on his part to do great harm. Hopefully that never happens.

I would strongly advise anyone that is following everything he says to read the opposing views *just as due diligence*. PH is much more, let's say academically rigorous, than here and there are some good criticisms of him over there. He posts there as well, and has a following there, it's not mindless or defenseless bashing. But there are a good number of factual errors, for instance, pointed out over there.

[SickOfBeingTired]

I agree that CT it does work. I currently live in Miami and have weight trouble even though I'm constantly sweating, however when I relocated to Toronto for a year, I didn't have to blink and the weight fell off. In fact I'm pretty sure it happend as soon as I stepped off the airplane and vice versa when I got back to Miami, I started to expand again.

[DigitalSurgeon]

So, how to implement CT.

Dr. Kruse believes CT is optimized when done while eating a totally ketogenic diet, as close to zero carb as possible. He advocates eating only protein and fat, most of this from seafood. He says this can be done seasonally, using CT and ketogenic diet from October thru April each year and eating starchy vegetables and fruits only in the spring and summer when they would normally be available.

Ray Cronise advocates eating a nutrient laden diet, high in nutrients/low in calories. Mainly from vegetable sources although he is not a vegan.

Both seem to favor CRON CRON - Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition which is Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition as opposed to eating the Standard American Diet.

Cold makes you eat less...... I am not saying it but, evolution mandates it in cold. That is built into the biochemistry of the Ancient Pathway. If you call PH academic you got bigger problems. That place is paleo dogma central.

[otzi]

I think that just because you live in a cold place doesn't guarantee success. Here in Alaska, as soon as it gets chilly and the snow flies (mid-Oct), people tend to hibernate in their house, become couch potatoes, and eat more junk food. In the summer, my house stays about 68 degrees, but in the winter, we fire up the woodstove and it's 75-80 in the house. Everyone has a remote starter for their car, and we wear lots of warm clothes.

I started driving with my heater off and my truck cab stays in the 30's. I quit wearing a coat no matter what the temp unless I have a risk of being stuck outdoors for an extended time, but to and from my truck, checking the mail, running into the store--all done with no coat.

[tim_1522]

I have no proof of it, but I think that the slow transition to people spending a larger and larger proportion of our time in a man-made "comfort zone" (68-78* F with optimal humidity) might be yet another contributing factor towards the overall downward spiral of health/wellness.

And you're right, just being in a particularly cold (or warm) climate doesn't guarantee that one will end up with significantly more exposure to cold (or heat) due to the ubiquity of man made structures (and vehicles, etc) with either heat or A/C.

[otzi]

I have no proof of it, but I think that the slow transition to people spending a larger and larger proportion of our time in a man-made "comfort zone" (68-78* F with optimal humidity) might be yet another contributing factor towards the overall downward spiral of health/wellness.

And you're right, just being in a particularly cold (or warm) climate doesn't guarantee that one will end up with significantly more exposure to cold (or heat) due to the ubiquity of man made structures (and vehicles, etc) with either heat or A/C.

It definitely seems we were 'designed' by God or Evolution to endure Winter. What happens to us in our endless Summers? For one thing, I've read that our lipid profile (O6:O3 ratios) should change with the changing of the season, as most every other mammal, but humans don't because the body never senses Winter. And, if by chance the body does sense Winter, the diet is all screwed up from the SAD and it's a double-whammy on the metabolism!

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18171691 :

Abstract
Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) can have strong effects on hibernation and daily torpor in mammals. High dietary PUFA contents were found to increase proneness for torpor, decrease body temperatures, prolong torpor bout duration, and attenuate hibernation mass loss. The mechanism by which PUFAs enhance torpor and hibernation is unknown, however. On the basis of a review of the literature, and on reexamining our own data on alpine marmots, we propose that effects on hibernation are not due to PUFAs in general, but to shifts in the ratio of n-6 PUFAs to n-3 PUFAs in membrane phospholipids. Specifically, high ratios of n-6 to n-3 PUFAs increase the activity of the Ca2+-Mg2+ pump in the sarcoplasmic reticulum of the heart (SERCA) and counteract Q10 effects on SERCA activity at low tissue temperatures. Therefore, high n-6 to n-3 PUFA ratios in cardiac myocyte membranes appear to protect the hibernating heart from arrhythmia, which in hypothermic nonhibernators is caused by massive increases in cytosolic Ca2+. The resulting reduced risk of cardiac arrest during hypothermia may explain why increased dietary uptake of n-6 PUFAs, but not of n-3 PUFAs, can strongly enhance the propensity for hibernation, and allows heterotherms to reach lower body temperatures, with associated increased energy savings. Therefore, at least for herbivorous hibernators, such as marmots, linoleic acid (C18:2 n-6)--the dietary source of all n-6 PUFAs--appears to represent a crucial and limited resource in natural environments.