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  1. #171
    Clabbergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    Apex.

    I am taking a pause to answer a similar question.

    what parts matter to whom.

    for instance.

    Primal versus Paleo

    Ketogenic versus Isocaloric

    Cold ADAPTATION versus Temperate Adaptation.

    I keep seeking ways to lower my weight. I know that for me isocaloric doesnt work. Ketogenic doesnt seem to allow me to reduce, however, it does not allow me to gain either and in my world no gain is no pain.

    Cold adaptation appears to be clearing my system of estrogen and other "goodies" making me harder ( longer and uncut ) which i currently adjudge a good thing

    and being Keto makes me primal by default but i am not truly Paleo ( you may have got me on that one ) as I do butter and heavy cream.

    I can tell you that my buddies kids dont need to worry about what they eat now, but the youngest got a shin splint the other day and my mind went immediately to a lack of vitamin K and i suggested he ice it like mad. Will he *shrug*

    So for that segment of the population that are not metabolically compromised i think this is gilding the lily. But who knows what could happen for them 50 years later. however as my buddy says, his quality of life ( ie eating zucchini bread at will ) isnt worth an extra 10 years. his thyroid issues dont bother him enough to care to manage it over and above his admittedly sloppy PCP. but he is within 15% of his BMI at age 50 so who cares. he eats what he wants drinks what he wants and it doesn't affect him greatly.

    On the other hand you got me. who eats less and more restricted than he does and always has. he out eats me constantly and other than his twice a week at the gym he sits all day long. Me, from age 26 to 36 i was in the gym 6 days a week for 3 hour sessions and on paper my strength looked awesome, my endurance was wonderful and my ass was gaining over 100 pounds on 800-1200 kcal daily. hell the gym owner refunded a year for me out of pity because he could not reconcile my weight with my ethic, one of the few people i have ever met to trust that i was not secretly eating a hostess factory at night.

    To this day i still have not found out my issue. I have more information than i did, and i know that HCG will take the weight off even if at a slower rate now. but HCG is a major epic cheat, and i want to find the real underlying problem.

    I think that in the end it is all about genetics way more than about behavior. I know my n=1 is biased toward that conclusion, and it smells like victim mentality however i do feel that we are all created unequal, and that we have the intellectual potential to correct those inequalities if we so desire.

    I do
    It's easy for me to say don't get discouraged, but harder for me to mean it 100% since I relate to a lot of what you've said here. I hope CT is the answer those who don't fit inside the weight loss norms need to get back their life. I've never truly believed it was as simple as calories in/calories out, and I think medicine is just beginning to comprehend that obesity is anything more than behavioral gluttony, never mind society.

    You've made amazing progress, and I have to believe you'll continue to if you stay the course with this work. It has led you this far and even if you aren't seeing immediately physical results, everything you do affects some cell in your body, some person you encounter, some ripple in the world. It has to or we are all spinning our wheels.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2.0 View Post
    CT is definitely interesting stuff. Have noticed that Ray Cronise doesn't seem to see the promise that Dr. Kruse does in it as a heal all.
    I wouldn't agree. I am dedicated full time to fighting obesity. I am doing it in a different forum and don't believe that it's as prescriptive as described by many. I am here, not because I eat this way, but because I see good. I see a bunch of people that really are trying hard to get it right and make a difference and a few of my blog members (and Jack) asked if I would chime in.

    Health isn't a contest, despite it being locked away in competitive sport. Being the fastest isn't how we dominated over all of the species.

    Wim and I have both spent a lot of time with this and we are excited to see things change. In the last three years we've seen a HUGE uptick in research and all of that is great to know why. Tim and I knew we'd put this on the map in a big way and I am grateful that Tim has done such an incredible job with promotion of the concept. He's brilliant and driven to help people as well. I want to take awareness into action, but I love the idea of Minimum Effective Dose.

    I hear parents say,"my kids sit at the computer all day and they don't get outside." Kids instinctively leave their coats in the house and expose all the time; we teach them to tolerate heat, sit down, and shut up. I believe the exercise myth is probably much bigger than the calorie myth. Exercise is good for circulatory condition and anaerobic strength, but the vast majority of sports take it to the extreme of injury. People want to do the same with cold stress. It's the idea that more, more, more, stronger, leaner, bigger is better. That's a testosterone-centric view. If those are your goals - I don't have issue, but they aren't mutually exclusive with healthful living. Diabetes and Heart Disease are.

    There are diet impacts, exercise impacts, and lifestyle/environment impacts. Genetics aren't deterministic, but epigenetic changes can be passed to offspring. That's pretty profound.

    wow, I wish I had the time to spend over here, as you guys are driven. I really respect that, but keep in mind it doesn't always have to be complicated to be intelligent. Nature has a way of finding very simple solutions. Sometimes we complicate them by pounding our world view in to make it fit. It's part of the "they're on my team" approach.

    Teams teach us a lot of things, but sometimes they unnecessarily separate.

    Ray Cronise
    Last edited by MrZZeroG; 03-15-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  3. #173
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    I can remember when swimming competitively at the national level - after a morning training session in a cold outdoor pool in early may - I'd be ravenous by lunch time and easily put away 2-3cans of tuna, and veggies...
    so here is a simple test. Get up in the morning like you did, EARLY, and on an empty stomach - go swim. The more spastic the better, because swimming generally is a technique sport not a power sport. The worse you are the MORE effort you expend - hence the reason for long hours of repetitive training and the LONG hours of mild cold stress.

    Then, at lunch load up on cruciferous greens, etc... no oil, no meat, no starch. HUGE quantities. Take beano if you need to and recognize your gut is not prepared for huge amounts of greens unless you eat them regularly.

    Do that for thirty days. I bet you'll see a difference if nothing else changes.

    Ray Cronise

  4. #174
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    Ray

    I've shared Jack's CT 1-6 series w/my Paleo PCP - also shared w/her the info on the perfect human diet... how can we from your perspectives - raise awareness beyond what we're seeing her on line?

    What would you like to see us share w/our PCPs, family, friends - beyond the n=1?
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  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    Apex.

    I am taking a pause to answer a similar question.

    what parts matter to whom.

    for instance.

    Primal versus Paleo

    Ketogenic versus Isocaloric

    Cold ADAPTATION versus Temperate Adaptation.

    I keep seeking ways to lower my weight. I know that for me isocaloric doesnt work. Ketogenic doesnt seem to allow me to reduce, however, it does not allow me to gain either and in my world no gain is no pain.

    Cold adaptation appears to be clearing my system of estrogen and other "goodies" making me harder ( longer and uncut ) which i currently adjudge a good thing

    and being Keto makes me primal by default but i am not truly Paleo ( you may have got me on that one ) as I do butter and heavy cream.

    I can tell you that my buddies kids dont need to worry about what they eat now, but the youngest got a shin splint the other day and my mind went immediately to a lack of vitamin K and i suggested he ice it like mad. Will he *shrug*

    So for that segment of the population that are not metabolically compromised i think this is gilding the lily. But who knows what could happen for them 50 years later. however as my buddy says, his quality of life ( ie eating zucchini bread at will ) isnt worth an extra 10 years. his thyroid issues dont bother him enough to care to manage it over and above his admittedly sloppy PCP. but he is within 15% of his BMI at age 50 so who cares. he eats what he wants drinks what he wants and it doesn't affect him greatly.

    On the other hand you got me. who eats less and more restricted than he does and always has. he out eats me constantly and other than his twice a week at the gym he sits all day long. Me, from age 26 to 36 i was in the gym 6 days a week for 3 hour sessions and on paper my strength looked awesome, my endurance was wonderful and my ass was gaining over 100 pounds on 800-1200 kcal daily. hell the gym owner refunded a year for me out of pity because he could not reconcile my weight with my ethic, one of the few people i have ever met to trust that i was not secretly eating a hostess factory at night.

    To this day i still have not found out my issue. I have more information than i did, and i know that HCG will take the weight off even if at a slower rate now. but HCG is a major epic cheat, and i want to find the real underlying problem.

    I think that in the end it is all about genetics way more than about behavior. I know my n=1 is biased toward that conclusion, and it smells like victim mentality however i do feel that we are all created unequal, and that we have the intellectual potential to correct those inequalities if we so desire.

    I do
    Quelson,

    Minor semantic quibbles aside, I have always admired your perseverance and fortitude. My goal in learning is to be able to provide the very best answers to anyone I can help.

  6. #176
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    I would like to hear about people's results with this- specifically what you do etc.

  7. #177
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    Much of this discussion has recently moved (as in the lasts 24 hours!) to jackkruse.com.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clabbergirl View Post
    Much of this discussion has recently moved (as in the lasts 24 hours!) to jackkruse.com.
    No wait- just give the 411. This thread is too long and boring.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Predator View Post
    Quelson,

    Minor semantic quibbles aside, I have always admired your perseverance and fortitude. My goal in learning is to be able to provide the very best answers to anyone I can help.
    Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

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    Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

  10. #180
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    Should I like just put cold compresses on my neck and stomach? Fine whatever.

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