Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 67

Thread: Warning against Ketogenic diets during pregnancy page 5

  1. #41
    emmie's Avatar
    emmie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,299
    Since I'm post-menopausal and in no danger of pregnancy, I'd like to question another assertion by the OP:

    "Ketogenic diets over long periods of time can also cause your t3/t4 ratio out of whack which screws up your thyroid."

    I have been eating a ketogenic diet for years--and lost close to 200 lbs. I also have Hashimoto's, an autoimmune disease that causes my hypothyroid condition. When my T3 'tanked' a few years ago, necessitating supplemental T3 (Cytomel), I had read some of this stuff about the 'danger' of low carb eating, and I asked my endo whether my diet was creating problems with my thyroid.

    My endo is excellent, trained at a major NYC medical center, and he told me that my WOE had nothing to do with my screwed up thyroid hormones. In fact, he said that the failure of the body to convert T4 to T3 (which caused my problem) is known to be characteristic of Hashimoto's. It doesn't affect every patient, but it's a problem for many.

    My endo loves my WOE because all my lab numbers are superb (when he checks my thyroid, he does a full blood panel), and at my age (71) my thyroid hormones are the only Rx I require. He's told me that he wishes he could get other patients (especially his diabetics) to eat the way I do.

    Correlation does not equal causation.

  2. #42
    Omni's Avatar
    Omni is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    979
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Let me put it this way. Breastmilk is high in fat. Newborns (should) spend a lot of time in ketosis, and are therefore ketoadapted..........
    Breast milk does also contain a good proportion of lactose as well, but your comment prompted a thought.

    Does the composition of breast milk change when mother is in Ketosis?
    I have heard it can shift around a little bit with changes in diet, but don't have any specifics.

  3. #43
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,086
    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Breast milk does also contain a good proportion of lactose as well, but your comment prompted a thought.

    Does the composition of breast milk change when mother is in Ketosis?
    I have heard it can shift around a little bit with changes in diet, but don't have any specifics.
    Good question. That portion was a quote from Emily Dean here Evolutionary Psychiatry: Your Brain on Ketones. That bit is just part of her post (second to last paragraph) on brain and ketones.

  4. #44
    Uncephalized's Avatar
    Uncephalized is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Let me put it this way. Breastmilk is high in fat. Newborns (should) spend a lot of time in ketosis, and are therefore ketoadapted. Being ketoadapted means that babies can more easily turn ketone bodies into acetyl-coA and into myelin. Ketosis helps babies construct and grow their brains. (Update - looked more into this specifically and it seems that babies are in mild ketosis, but very young babies seem to utilize lactate as a fuel in lieu of glucose also - some of these were rat studies, though - and the utilization of lactate also promotes the same use of acetyl-CoA and gives the neonates some of the advantages of ketoadaptation without being in heavy ketosis.)
    Um, what? Different nutrition sites give slightly different numbers, but human breast milk has more sugar in it than fat--roughly 7g sugars vs 4g fat and 1g protein, per 100g of milk. This is not even close to a ketogenic diet. On a 2000kcal/day diet for an adult that would equate to ~190g carbohydrate, ~120g fat, and ~30g protein per day.

    I'm not saying babies don't or shouldn't go into ketosis, but a diet with these proportions for an adult would be considered moderate-high carb and moderate fat. It's actually closer to ice cream than any other food in macronutrient ratios (the main difference being that ice cream has much less water). 2000kcal of ice cream would come in ~180g carbs, ~130g fat, and ~30g protein, obviously depending on the recipe. Very, very similar, in fact.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

    My Primal Journal

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    981
    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Interesting
    Indications are Ketogenic diets do not breed obese cultures, as evidenced by Inuit & other high fat eating civilisations, but maybe the epigenetic factor does tune them better for a low carb environment, these cultures only got fat when white man brought them donuts & sugar, maybe they will adapt to donuts in another ten generations.
    .
    There's no hard evidence whole cultures have been in ketosis for generations and spent their pregnancies in ketosis. Just a lot of guesswork and theorizing. Even the Inuit are said to have adaptations that make them more efficient at gluconeogenesis, thus keeping them out of ketosis a lot of the time. Add to that their diet sometimes consisted of berries, roots and glycogen in fresh meat. And the reasons there is no big studies is because no logical mother is going to enroll in a diet study experiment that could have lifelong consequences on their unborn child. Every low-carb book I have read has strongly warned against ketosis in pregnancy. Strangely enough, the only one that I can think of that doesn't mention pregnancy is "The art and science of low-carbohydrate living" by Volek and Phinney, which I think is kind of telling. I'll guess because if they mentioned it at all they would have probably have to put in a disclaimer, which would kind of be counter productive considering the whole book is basically all about how natural and great ketosis is.


    Furthermore, even Michael Eades who is possibly one of the biggest proponents of ketogenic diets you will find online is against the idea.

    Eades:
    "The medical literature (at least with animal studies; no one could ethically do such studies with humans) is pretty clear that ketogenic diets are NOT good for the developing fetus.

    I’m not an expert on this issue as it applies to developing fetuses, so I check with my friend Larry McCleary who is a pediatric neurosurgeon, low-carb advocate, and well read in the nutritional fetal development literature. He says that in the fetal brain most of the lipid synthesis is from glucose and to a smaller degree, lactate. Beta hydroxybutyrate (a ketone) is not a major contributor. In addition, the enzymes in the pathway from BHB to acetyl CoA in the fetal brain are poorly developed. Post natally they activate. Hence, BHB is not a major provider for ATP generation in the fetal brain.

    For these reasons he feels that a ketogenic diet might not be the best diet during pregnancy. But having said that, I (and he) don’t think a high-carb diet is the diet of choice either. A moderate carbohydrate diet with plenty of colorful fruits and vegetables along with healthy servings of meat would be ideal in my opinion."

    Anyone that takes the risk is truly insane. People need to be a bit more responsible about some of the ideas they promote online. Just because conventional wisdom is wrong some of the time it doesn't mean you should automatically reject all of it.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 09-28-2012 at 03:46 AM.

  6. #46
    Betorq's Avatar
    Betorq is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    GA & CA
    Posts
    885
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    There's no hard evidence whole cultures have been in ketosis for generations and spent their pregnancies in ketosis. Just a lot of guesswork and theorizing. Even the Inuit are said to have adaptations that make them more efficient at gluconeogenesis, thus keeping them out of ketosis a lot of the time. Add to that their diet sometimes consisted of berries, roots and glycogen in fresh meat. And the reasons there is no big studies is because no logical mother is going to enroll in a diet study experiment that could have lifelong consequences on their unborn child. Every low-carb book I have read has strongly warned against ketosis in pregnancy. Strangely enough, the only one that I can think of that doesn't mention pregnancy is "The art and science of low-carbohydrate living" by Volek and Phinney, which I think is kind of telling. I'll guess because if they mentioned it at all they would have probably have to put in a disclaimer, which would kind of be counter productive considering the whole book is basically all about how natural and great ketosis is.


    Furthermore, even Michael Eades who is possibly one of the biggest proponents of ketogenic diets you will find online is against the idea.

    Eades:
    "The medical literature (at least with animal studies; no one could ethically do such studies with humans) is pretty clear that ketogenic diets are NOT good for the developing fetus.

    I’m not an expert on this issue as it applies to developing fetuses, so I check with my friend Larry McCleary who is a pediatric neurosurgeon, low-carb advocate, and well read in the nutritional fetal development literature. He says that in the fetal brain most of the lipid synthesis is from glucose and to a smaller degree, lactate. Beta hydroxybutyrate (a ketone) is not a major contributor. In addition, the enzymes in the pathway from BHB to acetyl CoA in the fetal brain are poorly developed. Post natally they activate. Hence, BHB is not a major provider for ATP generation in the fetal brain.

    For these reasons he feels that a ketogenic diet might not be the best diet during pregnancy. But having said that, I (and he) don’t think a high-carb diet is the diet of choice either. A moderate carbohydrate diet with plenty of colorful fruits and vegetables along with healthy servings of meat would be ideal in my opinion."

    Anyone that takes the risk is truly insane. People need to be a bit more responsible about some of the ideas they promote online. Just because conventional wisdom is wrong some of the time it doesn't mean you should automatically reject all of it.
    Pregnant women should eat whatever they want, when they want it, depending on availability & finances. Ice cream & salted whatever. Let the body's wisdom &/or whacked out hormones rule the day... I've been there & done that, having to live with in close quarters, while working f/t & trying to feed, clothe & please a pregnant pizza eating, veggie hating gf, the mother of my child...

    "Hell hath no fury like a pregnant woman scorned!"
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  7. #47
    Drumroll's Avatar
    Drumroll is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    3,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    Pregnant women should eat whatever they want, when they want it, depending on availability & finances. Ice cream & salted whatever. Let the body's wisdom &/or whacked out hormones rule the day... I've been there & done that, having to live with in close quarters, while working f/t & trying to feed, clothe & please a pregnant pizza eating, veggie hating gf, the mother of my child...

    "Hell hath no fury like a pregnant woman scorned!"
    This. This times 1,000,000.

    I mean really... If a woman is listening to her body and decides that she still feels best on a ketogenic diet, then let her do it. Remember, if the woman feels great, it's one way to judge a healthy developing fetus. On the other hand, if she feels lousy, that can have an adverse effect on the fetus.

    Let the woman make her own dietary decisions. I think womanly intuition and instinct will naturally drive a woman towards the foods that are best for her AND her developing fetus. It's in their genetic and hormonal codes after all.

  8. #48
    Omni's Avatar
    Omni is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    979
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Anyone that takes the risk is truly insane. People need to be a bit more responsible about some of the ideas they promote online. Just because conventional wisdom is wrong some of the time it doesn't mean you should automatically reject all of it.
    I did not see any evidence in what you posted, only opinion based on opinion.
    Do you have any data to support the hypothesis that inuit have a special glucogenesis adaptation?
    I have looked around and couldn't find anything on that, I'm pretty sure it is well established that their traditional diet was ultra low carb, you were cherry picking that opinion, you quoted Phinney/Volek not saying anything about pregnancy and Ketosis, you should also have quoted them as being 100% definitive on the Inuit diet being ketogenic as well.

    I'm not advocating it, but if there is any actual evidence I'd like to see it.

    I think it's a little bit rich suggesting anyone that comes to a different conclusion than you must be Insane.

  9. #49
    meeshar's Avatar
    meeshar is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Southeastern TN
    Posts
    531
    I have an anecdotal experience to add. I had a gastric bypass 2 years before becoming pregnant with my daughter. Due to that surgery, I ate a relatively low-carb, high protein, moderate fat diet simply because my short gut made sugar/carbs hit my bloodstream too quickly (resulting in dumping syndrome and later reactive hypoglycemia). I didn't eat a lot of grains/carbs, and only in small portions with plenty of protein and veg.

    When I became pregnant, a weird thing happened. All of a sudden I could tolerate carbs again, almost as if I had never had the surgery. I didn't go overboard on them, but having had them taken out of my diet for over 2 years, I ate more than I probably should have. When I asked one of my OB/GYN's about it, she said something about the placenta aiding in glucose tolerance? I passed the glucose test with normal numbers. I also ate butter, cream in coffee, etc. because I had been diagnosed a year before with blind loop syndrome (a SIBO), which damages the intestines and causes fat malabsorption, so I didn't want to limit my fat intake. I lost weight in the first trimester due to severe nausea, and then gained only baby weight during the rest of the pregnancy. My daughter was born on-time, healthy, and now at 4 years old she's normal weight (if not a little on the skinny side, she worried us during the terrible twos) and healthy--in fact, she's never needed antibiotics, and has never had a sick visit to the doctor.

    What I wonder is why did my body suddenly start tolerating carbs/sugar during pregnancy? I never did find any solid info on the placenta bit that my doctor told me, so this has always boggled me to a degree.

  10. #50
    Betorq's Avatar
    Betorq is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    GA & CA
    Posts
    885
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Cos we humans have amazingly bloody adaptive bodies. YOU are amazing! And it's a mystery we may or may not ever figger out, lol
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •