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Thread: Help! 6 months on PB Total/HDL = EEK page

  1. #1
    guido's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel


    Family history of heart disease. Pretty active but long history of carbs and chronic cardio.

    6 months on PB/primal >85% diet, Damage Control MF, Vital Omegas, 3x heavy gym work outs, 1 sprint, 2x play or low intensity endurance. Lost 20 pounds. Feeling amazing for almost 52.

    Had my first basic Cho test in a year my total/HDL ratio is 9.1!


    Thoughts on where to go from here?


    TIA,


    guido


  2. #2
    arthurb999's Avatar
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    What were your other ratios like?


  3. #3
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    It was just a basic Total - HDL - Insulin test. I have a couple of months until I am scheduled for more complete work. Insulin looks great though...


  4. #4
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    I see the trolls have been dealt with. How y'all doing?


    Wanted to chime in as I just got similar results. I've been low-carb, grain/legume-free for about two years, lacto-paleo roughly two more, and zero carb (meat, eggs, butter, some cheese/heavy cream) for nine months. Today I had my cholesterol tested, along with a friend, and we were surprised and fascinated by what we found.


    (Note this was not a true measurement by NMR/VAP, and unfortunately I have no previous tests to compare it with.)


    First, let's recap what the numbers "should be":


    HDL: 60 or higher

    LDL: 60 or lower

    Triglycerides: 60 or lower


    And the ratios between them:


    Total/HDL: 2-3

    LDL/HDL: < 4.3

    Trig/HDL: < 2


    So what do mine look like? Absolute crap:


    Total: 498

    HDL: 54

    LDL: 399

    Trig: 223


    Total/HDL: 9.2

    LDL/HDL: 7.4

    Trig/HDL: 4.1


    My friend, on the other hand, gets five gold stars:


    Total: 215

    HDL: >100

    LDL: N/A

    Trig: 61


    Total/HDL: < 2.15

    LDL/HDL: ?

    Trig/HDL: 0.61


    As you can see, his numbers are PHENOMENAL, comparing favorably to those of many prominent paleo folks:


    http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2009/06/benefits-of-high-saturated-fat-diets_12.html


    The fascinating part? I eat FAR closer to how those people do! He&#39;s cut way back on processed foods, sugars, grains and veg oils, but still eats things like Taco Bell, McDonalds breakfast biscuits and Little Debbie brownies a few times a month...and snacks on frosted shredded wheat. Otherwise, he eats very similar to me -- mostly meat, some eggs and butter -- plus fruit here and there like unsweetened applesauce, and with occasional high-fat, low-sugar desserts like homemade cheesecake.


    Certainly individual variation counts for a lot, but I have a theory: He&#39;s eaten tinned fish for years on a regular basis, which I only started doing recently. Also, he&#39;s been taking fish oil capsules for as long as I&#39;ve been zero-carb (about 9 months). So although we both eat grainfed beef instead of grassfed, his Omega-3 to -6 ratio is likely much better than mine. I can&#39;t see it being the only difference -- he has a number of chronic medical conditions -- but it&#39;s the first one that leaps out at me.


    Other than taking fish oil, what else might be missing from my equation? Far as I can tell, I adhere to the most important methods of improving lipids and avoiding metabolic syndrome:


    - Taking vitamin D3 (5,000 IU/day)

    - Eating no grains, sugars or bad fats (vegetable oils/transfat/etc)

    - Eating once or twice per day (frequent meals raise LDL/blood glucose)

    - Exercise: Intense, brief and occasional, plus slow, regular movement.


    Addressing thyroid issues is a last resort, and I don&#39;t show any signs of those that I can see.


    Finally, blood pressure and blood glucose still look great, and I continue to have negligible visceral/abdominal fat.


    Funniest part: The lady said I need vegetables for the "plant sterols". Okay, let&#39;s see:


    "According to most nutritional studies the average American gets about 250 milligrams of sterols in his diet every day. Vegetarians get a bit more, averaging around 700 milligrams, and people who exist on fast food getting significantly less. The amount recommended by most researchers is two grams."


    And then:


    "Fruits and vegetables have trace amounts of plant sterols. The amounts are so small that you would need to eat just under 50 pounds of produce to get the recommended .8 grams of plant sterols per day."


    Well, that would seem not to make much sense. And apparently, the best sources of these sterols are "grains and legumes"? Then I rest my case. Those have no place in the human diet unless the only alternative is starvation.


    And the big laugh? When she asked my friend what he eats, and he said that except a little onion and garlic, he hasn&#39;t eaten vegetables in about six months. You should have seen her face! And he gets even less exercise than I do, most of it coming from video games


  5. #5
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    Hey frog farm,

    those triglycerides don&#39;t look too good... Maybe with the zero carb you are getting too much protein?


  6. #6
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    @TenYear: I was always careful even when low-carbing to get most of my calories from fat, and I&#39;ve gone higher-fat over the last few months specifically to cut down on protein.


    (Also hoping I&#39;m not just genetically "blessed" with Lipoprotein(a) or something similar)


    Partly I didn&#39;t have a heart attack on seeing the numbers because of the attitude I went in with, which was like what Dr. Harris describes here in his reply to "tm":


    http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/2/22/body-by-science-and-panu.html


    (Not to veer thread too far off track, but essentially, information is not knowledge; too much information can drive you crazy/sick with worry; and risk assessment is as much about personal values as it is about science.)


  7. #7
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification


    Bumping for visibility. Also, I&#39;ve been reading Dr. Davis&#39; posts on folks whose genetics mean they still have bad lipid panels after doing everything right:


    http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Lipoprotein%28a%29


    No common factors between the women that he can see. (The men tend to have low body fat and find it difficult to gain weight.)


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