I don't get why you would need carbs for endurance running (except) page 2

[sakura_girl]

This probably speaks to why it's encouraged to take in carbs post workout and not pre workout. Ideally you want the body to use fat as much as possible while working out (with the knowledge that SOME glycogen will be burned) and raising Insulin pre-workout would discourage fat being burned during the workout as the body is in fat storage mode not fat burning more due to the Insulin.

But if the insulin gradually dies down and you use up all your glycogen, shouldn't you be burning fat during the workout anyway? I see no difference between pre- and post- workout so long as there is no excess glucose spilling over from muscle glycogen into fat pre-workout. Funneling nutrition is a different story, however...

[Daemonized]

Glycogen depletion increases the time that it takes for muscles to recover and stressed the immune system. It's needed for both endurance and other athletes as well. Given lack of carbohydrates in one's the body will convert protein to glycogen in the liver via a process called neoglycogenesis.

[Daemonized]

Glycogen again, is also what is referred to as "water weight". I human of about 150 pounds can store about half a pound of glycogen. Each molecule of glycogen is stored with multiple water molecules though so the actual weight fluctuation from glycogen full to depleted is closer to five pounds and is spread between the liver and all of the body's muscles.

It is possible, given a high carb especially sugar laden diet and lack of exercise, to fill a person's glycogen capacity. When this happens additional carbohydrates are much easier stored as fat than before. The three ways of depleting one's glycogen are reducing carbohydrate intake, exercise, and fasting.
So, while large amounts of carbohydrates are not advantageous to a sedentary lifestyle. They're also not really a problem when consumed in moderation as part of a healthy diet. Just because having a glycogen supply at max capacity is a bad thing if you didn't just take the first stop of a marathon does not mean that completely depleted supply is a good thing and goal to work towards by eating an extremely low carb diet.

[sakura_girl]

Glycogen depletion increases the time that it takes for muscles to recover and stressed the immune system. It's needed for both endurance and other athletes as well. Given lack of carbohydrates in one's the body will convert protein to glycogen in the liver via a process called neoglycogenesis.

Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

[Daemonized]

Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

Sure, no worries.

[samiamm]

thanks for all the replies tim, daemonized.

So I got another quick question, if I workout, meaning lift mon tues wed. and do HIIT every other day except sunday, am I still not getting carbs if I eat things like broccoli, cauliflower, avocados, etc?? I mean, all those vegetables do have carbs, would those be enough to keep my glycogen stores at a good level, or would you recommend things like sweet potatoes, fruits, etc.?

[StackingPlates]

So I got another quick question, if I workout, meaning lift mon tues wed. and do HIIT every other day except sunday, am I still not getting carbs if I eat things like broccoli, cauliflower, avocados, etc?? I mean, all those vegetables do have carbs, would those be enough to keep my glycogen stores at a good level, or would you recommend things like sweet potatoes, fruits, etc.?

As mentioned in your other thread, there is no reason to be conducting your training schedule this way. World class athletes give themselves more rest time!

Downtime is build time.

[UpACreek]

That sounds great creek!!
You must be in pretty good shape, however, I think most people on here, even the "slow pace endurance runners" succeed a heart rate of 135-138. What do you think about your glycogen stores emptying if you're doing HIIT at about 90-95% of your heart rate?

No, but I used to be in really good shape a decade or two back ;-) To know 20 years ago what I know now...

The point to this kind of heart rate training is to stay at or just under your max aerobic heart rate. If you do, the speed will come. If not, you can still get fast - but you'll never get your heart rate down while doing it. If your heart rate is up, you're burning glycogen quickly. 90-95% of your max will annihilate glycogen stores in a matter of minutes - anywhere from 3 to 10 depending on which study you're reading. My "speed" day is typically tabatas, which I personally find more effective than longer HIIT sessions.

[Neckhammer]

This fella seems to do well as a fat burner. How a low carb diet affected my athletic performance (Part 4) | Peter Attia | The War on Insulin. I would say its not about just using fat or just using glucose. They are both fuels, but were a low carb or keto adapted person seems to thrive is that they have more metabolic flexibility. They can burn fat at higher levels of intensity and can conserve the glucose for when it is really needed. A carb burner is just not adept to using fat as fuel so is stuck shoveling in the carbs all race long.

[samiamm]

I don't know what you mean by "they can burn fat at higher levels of intensity" but there comes a certain point of intensity where no one can use fat as the fuel, and have to rely on carbs/glucose.