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  1. #11
    Corvidae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestar View Post
    *snippage*

    I honestly think that script writers don't know how to write a well-balanced, rounded-out female character. I realize I'm assuming that most writers in Hollywood are male, but...it's often seemed to me that the portrayal of women in SF/F and even in general falls into one of the cliches you mention because we're some secretive, mystical creature that can't POSSIBLY react and live in the same ways men do.

    ...I also spend a lot of time reading The Mary Sue and similar blogs, so maybe I'm looking for issues where they don't exist. Maybe.
    No, yeah I think thats a huge part of the issue. But then ive also read stuff by female writers with female characters that arent very good, but ive chalked that up to them learning bad habits from the field being dominated by male-centric paradigmns for decades.

    One of the best portrayals of female characters in SF/F that I've ever read, EVER, comes actually from a male writer. His name is James Alan Gardner, and he has a small collection of books out that are SHOCKINGLY good. I picked up one at a used book store on a whim and BURNED through it in half a day. The first of his books, Expendable, has a female protagonist told through a first person perspective and, frankly, it totally raised the bar in my mind for what to expect from such a character. If you're looking for an example of a good female character, i cannot recommend that book enough.
    "Since going primal, I've found that there are very few problems that cannot be solved with butter and/or bacon fat."

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    One of the best portrayals of female characters in SF/F that I've ever read, EVER, comes actually from a male writer. His name is James Alan Gardner, and he has a small collection of books out that are SHOCKINGLY good. I picked up one at a used book store on a whim and BURNED through it in half a day. The first of his books, Expendable, has a female protagonist told through a first person perspective and, frankly, it totally raised the bar in my mind for what to expect from such a character. If you're looking for an example of a good female character, i cannot recommend that book enough.
    I will look that up! In return, I highly recommend the Venus trilogy by Pamela Sargent. The books follow 7 generations of women, from a rural farm town in North America to colonizing Venus. The women are all very distinct, strong-willed, and "alive" and all have their own dreams and ambitions that often do not fall in line with the expectations of the rest of the family (much like in real families). Also, there's a gay main character in the second book who deals with the full spectrum of coming to terms with his sexuality and trying to just live life and be happy in the face of extreme religious intolerance, if that's your bag. (It's my bag)

    Overall, HIGHLY recommended. I've read each book like 8 times at least.

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  3. #13
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    Awesome! I will check that out, thanks

    Also, Ive realized recently that Venus doesn't get a lot of love in the SF limelight. Prolly, cause, you know...it would be really hard to live there. But it makes a nice change from Mars.
    "Since going primal, I've found that there are very few problems that cannot be solved with butter and/or bacon fat."

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    Awesome! I will check that out, thanks

    Also, Ive realized recently that Venus doesn't get a lot of love in the SF limelight. Prolly, cause, you know...it would be really hard to live there. But it makes a nice change from Mars.
    The way they deal with it in the trilogy is pretty interesting, though I'm not sure how plausible. One of the women is a scientist, so they go into a fair amount of detail.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    Awesome! I will check that out, thanks

    Also, Ive realized recently that Venus doesn't get a lot of love in the SF limelight. Prolly, cause, you know...it would be really hard to live there. But it makes a nice change from Mars.
    However, it's the setting for my favorite Ray Bradbury short story.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravyboat View Post
    I will look that up! In return, I highly recommend the Venus trilogy by Pamela Sargent. The books follow 7 generations of women, from a rural farm town in North America to colonizing Venus. The women are all very distinct, strong-willed, and "alive" and all have their own dreams and ambitions that often do not fall in line with the expectations of the rest of the family (much like in real families). Also, there's a gay main character in the second book who deals with the full spectrum of coming to terms with his sexuality and trying to just live life and be happy in the face of extreme religious intolerance, if that's your bag. (It's my bag)

    Overall, HIGHLY recommended. I've read each book like 8 times at least.
    Oooh I'll definitely add this one to my reading list

    As for making a little grok, I'm afraid you'd have to front some cash my dear working for free is for the birds! (or the veggies!) Though I wouldn't be opposed to taking payment in piles of meat >

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfeet View Post
    Oooh I'll definitely add this one to my reading list
    Do ittt. The first book plods a little, but the second and third are insane. In roughly chronological order, there's: small-minded alcoholic family members holding others back from personal success, global politics, estranged marriages, awkward gay orgies, a growing police state, deviant sex cults, concentration camp style torture, and even time travel. It's a trilogy the whole family can enjoy!

    As for making a little grok, I'm afraid you'd have to front some cash my dear working for free is for the birds! (or the veggies!) Though I wouldn't be opposed to taking payment in piles of meat >
    I wanted to mention, that little guy is really good! I have worked in Poser enough to know that walks are super difficult to get to a point where they look natural, and I've done enough skinning and pixel art to know how time-consuming and detail-oriented that can be as well. So good job!!

    _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfeet View Post
    Oooh I'll definitely add this one to my reading list

    As for making a little grok, I'm afraid you'd have to front some cash my dear working for free is for the birds! (or the veggies!) Though I wouldn't be opposed to taking payment in piles of meat >
    lol I just thought it would be a cute thing to try. Also I don't know how well the postal service would take it if us paleo-types started using it to send envelopes stuffed with bacon to each other.
    "Since going primal, I've found that there are very few problems that cannot be solved with butter and/or bacon fat."

    My amusing take on paleo-blogging: http://whatshouldwecallpaleolife.tumblr.com/

    Are you a Primal in San Francisco, or the SF Bay Area in general? Join our facebook group!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    No, yeah I think thats a huge part of the issue. But then ive also read stuff by female writers with female characters that arent very good, but ive chalked that up to them learning bad habits from the field being dominated by male-centric paradigmns for decades.

    One of the best portrayals of female characters in SF/F that I've ever read, EVER, comes actually from a male writer. His name is James Alan Gardner, and he has a small collection of books out that are SHOCKINGLY good. I picked up one at a used book store on a whim and BURNED through it in half a day. The first of his books, Expendable, has a female protagonist told through a first person perspective and, frankly, it totally raised the bar in my mind for what to expect from such a character. If you're looking for an example of a good female character, i cannot recommend that book enough.
    Oooh, I'm always looking for good reading. I'm looking this up right now to see if it's something I'd like. ...and who knows, maybe it won't languish on the huuuuge pile of "to read" books already on my night stand, and I'll get right to it. Thanks for the rec!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfeet View Post
    Oooh I'll definitely add this one to my reading list

    As for making a little grok, I'm afraid you'd have to front some cash my dear working for free is for the birds! (or the veggies!) Though I wouldn't be opposed to taking payment in piles of meat >
    Heh. This makes me really appreciate Kingdom of Loathing even more, since in that game meat really is the kingdom's currency.

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