Diatomaceous earth - anyone have bad side effects? page 6

[jojohaligo]

was it like this?

Jim Carey - How Wealthy People Laugh - YouTube

That's exactly what I was imagining in my mind!

[bloodorchid]

like THIS, you and me *crossing fingers*

[Omni]

Bone broth will provide silica, but bone also concentrates some metals I am not interested in such as lead. Even "organic" beef bones can still contain these metals. Personally I prefer to stick to the DE.

As for applications its oldest use internally is for parasites in both humans and farm animals. I am not sold on its use for "detox" It is not like zeolites in structure to allow it to remove toxins unless by toxins people are referring to parasites and yeast.

DE is also used in supplements for a silica source and as a flow agent in supplements and pharmaceutical drugs.

Thanks,
Though I'm still not sold on the dangers of metal contamination, particularly when you consider most of the animals we eat are less than 12 months old.

[JamesS]

Thanks for the response. I understand what you are getting at with the differences between silica, sand etc. However, I still am not convinced that eating food grade DE is good, or optimal for me.

I personally do not "eat it". I add it to my water to help saturate my water with orthosilicic acid then drink the water above the sediment. Then I add more water tot he container let it settle out again and drink the water above the sediment again. I just keep repeating this. My nails get extremely hard in about a week, which is a good indicator of absorption.

People in general are getting less silica these days as the primary sources are unpurified water and fibers. So many people though drink purified waters though these days, which has the silica removed. And today's diets are much lower in fibers, which are also a primary source of silica.

Silica levels decline with age anyway due to absorption problems leading to many of the conditions we consider "age related" such as osteoporosis, emphysema, diverticulitis and even wrinkles.

[JamesS]

Here is another question/comment. Based on the discussion of sand and silica/DE not being the same thing, I would also then argue that dirt and DE are not the same thing. Most of what we call dirt (the stuff we grow our food in) is decomposed biomass, is it not?

And clay, and worm poop, and all sorts of bacteria and fungus, and meteorite dust, and..........

Accidentally eating dirt is still different than purposely eating fossilized remains of diatoms.

Correct.

[Betorq]

James, I agree with you on this one. For more than a couple of decades, I've used commercial garden-grade DE 1st in my garden to kill slugs and other pests naturally, then later when I came back from my 1st trip from India in 1997, with the buggers breeding in my belly, I read about the internal applications of food grade DE for mammals, like pets, farm animals, and yes, us humans too. As long as you're not breathing in the dust, it's more than fine to use internally, as it has a broad range of medicinal effects. I use it a couple of times a year, during cleansing/building protocols, spring/fall. Fall is coming, so I'll try your method soon. Precipitating it in stages makes perfect sense to me. Thanks.

I personally do not "eat it". I add it to my water to help saturate my water with orthosilicic acid then drink the water above the sediment. Then I add more water tot he container let it settle out again and drink the water above the sediment again. I just keep repeating this. My nails get extremely hard in about a week, which is a good indicator of absorption.

People in general are getting less silica these days as the primary sources are unpurified water and fibers. So many people though drink purified waters though these days, which has the silica removed. And today's diets are much lower in fibers, which are also a primary source of silica.

Silica levels decline with age anyway due to absorption problems leading to many of the conditions we consider "age related" such as osteoporosis, emphysema, diverticulitis and even wrinkles.

[JamesS]

Thanks,
Though I'm still not sold on the dangers of metal contamination, particularly when you consider most of the animals we eat are less than 12 months old.

Age is not really that relevant. Metals such as lead are also passed through milk. So even nursing cows can be exposed to lead, which accumulates in bone.

[Paleobird]

...but during the process of fossilization are the bones, shells, etc. of the animal (or even tree) not turned into rock? or silica?

My first thought is that if it's not a good idea to eat wheat chaff or other excessively fibrous food because it screws with the villi and mucous on the inside of our intestines, I don't understand why I would eat DE on purpose. It's one thing to be eating dirt by accident, and another to eat it on purpose. That's my thought.

EDIT: The article linked by the second poster also claims that DE is 85% silica (Diatomaceous Earth Human Use, Natural Health Benefits, and Information for Humans). So let's agree that DE is mostly silica. It doesn't really matter what it was before, because now it is mostly silica.

EDIT 2: and the most common type of sand (although it varies) is usually silica. So calling DE "sand" really is not that much of a stretch.

Yes, once it is silica, the fact that it was once a bunch of diatoms is irrelevant.

if it's purified to food grade, how would it be beneficial? if it requires supps and probiotics, isn't it cleaning out more than necessary?

isn't bone broth a less abrasive way to achieve the same result in nutrient/mineral absorption? with zero possibility of a bloody anus?

The whole idea of "food grade" sand I find pretty ludicrous.

I think the theory is:
If you are diagnosed (??) with a toxic overload, heavy metals or other substances, using DE will help take these away and stop them being re absorbed in the intestines, but it does not discriminate with the nutrients it takes away, so you have to go nutrient rich to compensate.
Personally with the stuff I have read the whole detox area is dubious at best and sometimes quite dangerous where bad sypmptyoms during detox are seen as confirmation of toxicity.
My theory is if you load up with the good stuff, your body will remove the bad stuff progressively and you won't notice any negative side effects, only positive ones as you get healthier.
I think our bodies can do it much better than we give them credit for.

I agree. Eat real good food. No sand needed.

Here is another question/comment. Based on the discussion of sand and silica/DE not being the same thing, I would also then argue that dirt and DE are not the same thing. Most of what we call dirt (the stuff we grow our food in) is decomposed biomass, is it not? Accidentally eating dirt is still different than purposely eating fossilized remains of diatoms.

I am okay with getting silica in my diet through regular food, just like I get copper and other minerals, but I don't grind up pennies into my smoothies.

Now that is a good analogy.

You are still wrong Paleobird. A quartz crystal is also silica, but that does not make it sand. Our bones contain silica as well, but this does not make them sand.

But since you keep bringing up Wikipedia let's see what they say diatomaceous earth is:

Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae"

Fossilized remains, in other words skeletal remains, or a type of hard shelled algae. Those hard shell algae are known as phytoplankton. So where did we hear that DE is the skeletal remains of phytoplankton previously? Since you like Wiki so much:

Diatom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Diatoms[1] are a major group of algae, and are one of the most common types of phytoplankton. "

Therefore, as we can all see DE is not sand. Sand was not part of a living organism like DE to begin with.

I don't know why you insist on continually arguing over things you know nothing about. That's why you have lost every single time you have tried to argue against me. No, I don't know everything, but I don't start arguments over things I don't know.

Nothing new. But I am sure that everyone else understood the concept I explained about how DE does not harm the intestines. Especially when I gave another simple analogy about that as well. We are not talking about ingesting large shards of quartz glass. We are talking about ingesting a very fine powder. Let me try another analogy that even you should be able to figure out. Let's say you try to walk barefoot across a bed of broken window pane glass. Now compare that to walking barefoot across some sand dunes. Why would the first one cut up your feet, but not the second one even though they are both silica? When you finally figure out the answer then consider the fact that DE is significantly finer that the sand in sand dunes.

I am sorry the analogy went so far over your head. But I am not surprised at all.

James, sorry I've been a little busy taking care of my Dad in the hospital the past two days and was unable to get back to respond to your post.

You are an ass. The reason I have stopped arguing with you several times is not because I am overwhelmed by your mental acuity, it's because you're an ass. That makes it a pointless waste of time. 'Nuff said.

[Thrakk]

Sorry for quoting comments further back in the thread, but there's a few things I don't think were brought up.

Therefore, as we can all see DE is not sand. Sand was not part of a living organism like DE to begin with.

While everyone is throwing wikipedia links at each other, let me join in.

Sand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The second paragraph here says:
"The second most common form of sand is calcium carbonate, for example aragonite, which has mostly been created, over the past half billion years, by various forms of life, like coral and shellfish. It is, for example, the primary form of sand apparent in areas where reefs have dominated the ecosystem for millions of years, like the Caribbean."

So it turns out that certain sands actually were part of a living organism to begin with. Diatoms are marine/freshwater organisms too, so I'd say that regular sand you find at the beach has a fairly high diatom fossil count. DE and sand aren't the same thing, no, but they have a pretty high crossover of components. I'd think sand (from the beach) is probably a better option for intake; it'd have a broader range of minerals present (I'll henceforth think of sand as being 'Organic DE+).

Nothing new. But I am sure that everyone else understood the concept I explained about how DE does not harm the intestines. Especially when I gave another simple analogy about that as well. We are not talking about ingesting large shards of quartz glass. We are talking about ingesting a very fine powder. Let me try another analogy that even you should be able to figure out. Let's say you try to walk barefoot across a bed of broken window pane glass. Now compare that to walking barefoot across some sand dunes. Why would the first one cut up your feet, but not the second one even though they are both silica? When you finally figure out the answer then consider the fact that DE is significantly finer that the sand in sand dunes.

I understand your simple analogy, and I still disagree. And do you really have to break out into condescension because someone disagrees with you? Don't take this so seriously, keyboard warrior.

Regarding the analogy of someone walking over glass or sand - I see what your saying about the macro vs micro scale of things, but you have to remember that our internal organs (I'm mainly thinking of the villi of the intestine) have micro structures. A mild abrasive like sand clearly isn't going to do much to our feet (something designed to take that type of punishment), but it does have the capacity to do harm to our unprotected internal structures. No, I'm not saying it WILL do damage, I'm saying that everyone should keep an open mind and not just blindly take supplements.

I think the way you take your silica, JamesS, seems like a good way to do it. Drinking the dissolved stuff and leaving the sediment makes sense to me. Better than taking a spoon full of it for sure.

Never knew it could be ingested. Anyway, I found this webpage regarding DE, might consider trying it myself.

Diatomaceous Earth Human Use, Natural Health Benefits, and Information for Humans

I had a look over this link, and a few comments concern me a bit.
- Claiming to 'scrub' the walls of mucous membranes certainly caught my attention. We have our mucous membranes to act as protective layers against microbial invasion.
- They also can't seem to tell the difference between silica (molecule) and silicon (element), either that or I just can't figure out what they are trying to say. A few things in there just look plain wrong to me.

I do agree with the comments people have made about us not ingesting as much dirt/grit/sand as Grok would have. I don't believe a supplement like this is the answer though. If you are going to do it, go do it properly by dropping your steak a couple times in the dirt/sand before eating it (seriously, there is probably a huge spectrum of minerals we can intake from a bit of dirt here and there).

For all of you who are worried about micro-organisms and parasites living in your guts, I just wanted to say that I've been studying microbiology for a few years now, and trust me when I say there are more things living on/in you than you could possibly imagine. Some parasites, like tapeworms, should be treated, sure. You can't make your body a sterile site though, and this sort of stuff doesn't discriminate between the natural flora and the invading pathogen.

[JamesS]

Yes, once it is silica, the fact that it was once a bunch of diatoms is irrelevant.

Only irrelevant to those who do not care about facts.

You are an ass. The reason I have stopped arguing with you several times is not because I am overwhelmed by your mental acuity, it's because you're an ass. That makes it a pointless waste of time. 'Nuff said.

Of course you got everything else wrong so I don't see this as being any different.

But if you are going to try and insult me at least add some truth to it. For example, the reason you have given up on every argument against me other that to repeatedly insult me. You have lost every single debate you have engaged in with me because you make up claims and I provide actual evidence to my claims. That is why you keep responding with insults. People do that because they have no clue what they are talking about. Since they cannot reply with anything to back their made up claims all they have left to do is to continually attack the other person personally in a vain attempt to chase the other person away so they won't expose any more of the lies.