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Thread: Diatomaceous earth - anyone have bad side effects? page 19

  1. #181
    oceangrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Silica in the lungs on a repeated basis will cause silicosis, a nasty and often fatal condition.
    I used it once and never will again, of course.

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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Zombie post!
    Burrrrraaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnsssssssss
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    It's. Sand. Why. Are. You. Eating. Sand?

    smh
    Stop saying what I'm thinking!

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  4. #184
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    I finally found some time to do some internet searching last night. There are not many, if any, studies when you Google for studies about "diatomaceous earth" that are not from people trying to sell the product. Although DE is dirt (no pun intended) cheap compared to other forms of pesticide and vitamin supplements, I still don't trust those sources. However, if you use the term "amorphous silica" and "lungs" or "ingestion", there actually are quite a few studies out there.

    Crystalline silica (non-food, pool-grade, quartz, etc.) - can cause silicosis and is linked to cancer. This stuff is a listed carcinogen! Studies show it stays in the lungs for very long periods of time, throughout the length of the studies (years), and it causes silicosis. Studies have also shown a higher percentage of people with silicosis have developed lung cancer than those without.

    Amorphous silica (Food Grade DE) - is not a carcinogen and none of the many studies have shown it to cause silicosis. It can initially build up in the lungs with prolonged exposure, but there have never been any cases of silicosis, and in almost all cases the stuff seems to dissolve into and subsequently wash out of the lung tissue in about a year after the exposure ends. This doesn't mean I want to go intentionally breathing this stuff in, but I'm no longer worried about silicosis or other long-term exposure. The studies also show that amorphous silica has better adsorption (ability to dissolve into the body) than your typical crystalline silica (like beach sand), so that's probably why people use DE as a silica supplement.

    If anyone is interested in learning more here is a good EPA article, mostly about breathing exposure, but also a minor blurb about ingestion:

    Health Effects of Inhaled Crystalline and Amorphous Silica | Environmental Assessment | US EPA

    Here is an interesting statement from EPA for silica used as a pesticide. It talks a bit about human exposure via lung and ingestion:

    http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/fac...s/4081fact.pdf

    Here's a really recent study that shows amorphous silica may harm our internal intestinal cells (Yikes!), but it doesn't have the particulars about the study shown, and I would like to see grain size and what type of amorphous silica they used:

    Cellular internalization and stress response of ingested amorphous silica nanoparticles in the midgut of Drosophila melanogaster

    And here's a statement from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products from Europe about how safe it is to eat amorphous silica, with a good number of referenced studies:

    http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/60.pdf

    I think I've found most the answers I want after this research. Not terribly worried about lung exposure anymore. I think I will try it out for some home pest control. I don't know if I would eat this stuff, but I really don't see much difference between this and say eating an iron supplement or chewing up and swallowing a tums.

    Happy reading!

    Kellie

  5. #185
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie View Post
    Here's a really recent study that shows amorphous silica may harm our internal intestinal cells (Yikes!)

    Cellular internalization and stress response of ingested amorphous silica nanoparticles in the midgut of Drosophila melanogaster
    From the above study:

    Results
    A significant increase was observed in OS endpoints in the midgut cells of exposed Drosophila, membrane destabilization and mitochondrial membrane potential loss was also observed.[OS means Oxidative Stress]

    Conclusion
    aSNPs after their internalization in the midgut cells of exposed Drosophila larvae show membrane destabilization along with increased cellular stress and cell death.

    General significance
    Ingested aSNPs show adverse effects on the cells of GI tract of the exposed organism thus their industrial use as a food-additive may raise concern to human health.
    And here's a statement from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products from Europe about how safe it is to eat amorphous silica, with a good number of referenced studies:

    http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/60.pdf
    No, it does not say it's safe. it says, "The available data are inadequate to derive a tolerable upper intake level." In other words it says, "We don't know."
    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-15-2013 at 01:43 PM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    No, it does not say it's safe. it says, "The available data are inadequate to derive a tolerable upper intake level." In other words it says, "We don't know."
    Your statement is out of context. This report from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products was done to assess an upper intake level (how large amount you can safely eat). Due to the limitations of the studies using several different forms of silicates, and the fact that the few studies of amorphous silicate have not shown adverse effects, they concluded they cannot assess an upper level.

    You do realize the test showing cell death was conducted on microscopic larvae? I wouldn't tout that as proof of your claim. Farmers have been feeding this stuff to livestock for decades as a natural de-wormer with no noted ill effects.

    Kellie

  7. #187
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    Right, because we all know larvae's guts are equivalent to ours. Ok, makes sense now.

    I've recommended it to numerous friends & clients over the years. At worst, a few people said they felt no different.

    I've used DE on & off for about 18 years, sometimes intensely after traveling & returning from extensive long term trips to 3rd world countries from the 1980s-late '90s. Numerous times, I've had fairly SERIOUS diverse parasitic infestations, DE plus some other supplements & herbs, all together, solved my issues.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  8. #188
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    Thought I'd share, so I can find this again when I have time to read it a bit more thoroughly.

    260. Silicon dioxide and certain silicates (WHO Food Additives Series 5)

    This is a link to an article about several studies that were conducted several decades ago on silica ingestion. After just a preliminary look, the studies seem to show that when the body doesn't need the silica dissolved through ingestion, the body expels it pretty darn quickly. Studies were conducted on several different animals () and were administered the silica by both injection and ingestion.

    No toxicity was found, but I did note that one part of the article stated that humans would die if they ate 15g/kg of the stuff. For me, at about 140 lbs, that would be more than 200 tablespoons. Good to know.

    Here's another study on human intestine and silica (nano silica). They too report no toxicity.
    http://ihcp.jrc.ec.europa.eu/our_act...osafe_2012.pdf

    Maybe people who have silica deficiency are the ones that see the energy boost, nail and hair growth, etc., but people who are not silica deficient don't see any effects. The fact that the body seems to expel excess silica quickly may account for why people get regular on the stuff. And the test done on the microbe which killed its cells shows how DE can take out parasites in our guts. None of these studies explain the bad side effects experienced by some in this forum. None of these studies have reported any of these kinds of effects on the animal studies that I have seen.

    Kellie

  9. #189
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    Thanks Kellie! I've offered personal anecdotal & hear-say testimonial on this thread but no real science. Others have attempted to provide rational science on this subject, but it's like with a witch hunt w/ some people in this thread: nothing can convince them to consider the possibility that, gosh, they may be wrong!

    And you've provided strong, clear multiple studies showing the safety of DE ie silica for humans. Imo, these studies you found and cited were well done. There's no major corporations out there trying to promote or discredit DE, as it's such a niche product.

    Yes, there would be a toxic/fatal effect if I were to consume approximately 220 TBS at a time, according to the 15g/kg ratio provided by that studies toxicology results. The most I've ever taken in personally, or recommended to anyone, was 1 TBS on an empty stomach, max of 2 TBS a day, divided into 2 doses, AM & PM .

    Comically, I handkerchief my face & hold my breath when I scoop it out of it's bag & into a mason jar. I let the dust settle for a minute before I mix water into it
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  10. #190
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    I just read MDA online yest and ordered the book at midnite before going to bed It will take a week to get here and I need some advice in the meantime. I really want to get this right. Not sure Im in the right section of posting even?
    I had three fried eggs and tea w honey for breakfast, a smoothie for lunch made w pineapple, mango and kale and spinach and ginger and dinner will be salad. BUT my caloire counter says im at 190 for carbs(too high) and too much fat? (one oz of nuts in the salad I think) pls advise. And if you have a few meal ideas for the next week till the book gets it I would love it.
    I really want to get this right. Thank you

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