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Thread: Diatomaceous earth - anyone have bad side effects? page 16

  1. #151
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    ha! vindication

    and i didn't read too far into breathing it, i just figured that since it scratched and slurpied the juice out of bugs til they died & internet reports of abraded dog feet after letting them walk on it for days at a time, that it would irritate my sinuses and eyes if i face dove into the container
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    yeah you are

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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie View Post
    Many laxatives have crushed rock (also not sand), so there really is purpose to eating crushed rock at times. Heck the cereal you eat in the morning contains a healthy portion of crushed rock. That's how they get the calcium in there.
    Hah, cereal.

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  3. #153
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    NO, IT"S NOT! It is the silica skeletons of DIATOMS, tiny sea critters that died and fell to the ocean floors. It is NOT sand. It's the size and shapes that make DE unique for certain things. Me, just fine for me pool filter. In my mouth? Not hardly.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie View Post
    I'm researching DE for use with my pets and ran across this thread. As a geologist some of what is being said here is driving me nuts! Paleobird, I think you need to re-read your wiki links (not that wiki is always the best source of reliable info). The term "sand" refers to a grain size, not a mineral content and certainly not a chemical content. The Wiki you noted says most sands are silica, but not all are and goes on to talk about other different types of sand. Sand is rocks or minerals that are "smaller than 0.0625 mm down to 0.004 mm". Just because it is silica does not mean it is a sand. Would you consider a quartz crystal to be sand? DE starts out as a rock, it doesn't really qualify as a sand anyway since it did not originate as sand, its crushed rock. Many laxatives have crushed rock (also not sand), so there really is purpose to eating crushed rock at times. Heck the cereal you eat in the morning contains a healthy portion of crushed rock. That's how they get the calcium in there. Furthermore, food grade (natural) DE is way different in composition from the typical silica sand at the beach. If you research a bit more you will see that your typical sand at the beach is crystalline silica, 90% small pieces of quartz crystals. DE is actually tiny fossils of amorphous (not crystalline) microbes, and they are hollow. In fact, in order for the world health org to consider DE as food grade, it must be less than 2 percent crystalline, and many food grade brands of DE contain much less than this. Perhaps this link from the Oregon Dept of Environmental Quality will be a better source to learn about DE than Wiki: http://www.deq.state.or.us/er/docs/L...hFactSheet.pdf

    My main concern with this this stuff is breathing the dust. I'm looking for articles where it is actually tested, but cannot find any. I don't like the idea of breathing this stuff in, even if the Oregon DEQ says the food grade is just as safe as any other dust. Particles this size can go right through a dust mask, and I don't like using a real respirator. I would like to see some data. Any of you who use the stuff looked into this?
    Sigh. This thread just will not die.

    Sand (according to wiki) "the most common constituent of sand in inland continental settings and non-tropical coastal settings is silica (silicon dioxide, or SiO2)" DE is silica. The definition of sand has nothing to do with particle size. I don't eat crushed rock, in cereal or anywhere else thankyouverymuch.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    i just figured that since it scratched and slurpied the juice out of bugs til they died & internet reports of abraded dog feet after letting them walk on it for days at a time, that it would irritate my sinuses and eyes if i face dove into the container
    Those are the same reasons why I wouldn't breath it or eat it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivanthe View Post
    Hah, cereal. Welcome to the Primal Blueprint forums. Have a look around...


    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheBayou View Post
    NO, IT"S NOT! It is the silica skeletons of DIATOMS, tiny sea critters that died and fell to the ocean floors. It is NOT sand. It's the size and shapes that make DE unique for certain things. Me, just fine for me pool filter. In my mouth? Not hardly.
    When a tiny sea critter is fossilized it becomes rock. When that rock is ground up, it's just rock. The fact that it started out as diatoms is irrelevant. Crushed rock is sand.

  5. #155
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Sand (according to wiki) "the most common constituent of sand in inland continental settings and non-tropical coastal settings is silica (silicon dioxide, or SiO2)" DE is silica. The definition of sand has nothing to do with particle size. I don't eat crushed rock, in cereal or anywhere else thankyouverymuch.

    Those are the same reasons why I wouldn't breath it or eat it either.
    ...
    When a tiny sea critter is fossilized it becomes rock. When that rock is ground up, it's just rock. The fact that it started out as diatoms is irrelevant. Crushed rock is sand.
    You're funny Paleo! Any geologist would laugh at this. And, I don't think even you really believe that out-of-context quote from wiki defines the word "sand". You deliberately forgot the part of the sentence where it says this is a common "type" of sand. Don't believe everything you read on wiki. Silica is not even a "type" of sand it is the substance most commonly found in sand, but is also the substance most commonly found in the earth's crust in general, so it makes sense that it is a primary in the earths sands.

    Since you seem to love wiki... to quote the silica wiki: "Silica is most commonly found in nature as sand or quartz, as well as in the cell walls of diatoms (frustule)." See how they separate diatoms from sand and quartz. Silicon dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But whatever, as long as the other people who come here to look for information actually understand the difference between DE and sand, that's all I care about. So, one last time:
    sand = a grain size between that of the larger size, "gravel", and the smaller size, "silt".

    If you want to define crushed rock as grain size, I'm fine with that, but technically the grain size of food grade DE is much finer than that of sand. It would classify as a silt.

    As for not eating crushed rock in your cereal... lol. I guess ignorance is bliss.

    Thanks for the welcome. This is an interesting forum. Everyone have a great afternoon!

    Kellie

  6. #156
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    I don't eat cereal. Full stop. No blissful ignorance needed.

    I never said "type" of sand. I said "constituent" of sand. Who has reading comprehension issues?

    Yes, silica is found in sand, quartz, fossilized diatoms. So what? When you grind it up what you have is sand. You can measure particle size if you want to use that definition but it doesn't change things. So if DE is smaller than what is technically "sand" grains and is "silt" grains instead, does that mean I want to ingest it? Hell no! Silt is just sand that has been ground up really fine. it's still the same thing.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I don't eat cereal. Full stop. No blissful ignorance needed.

    I never said "type" of sand. I said "constituent" of sand. Who has reading comprehension issues?

    Yes, silica is found in sand, quartz, fossilized diatoms. So what? When you grind it up what you have is sand. You can measure particle size if you want to use that definition but it doesn't change things. So if DE is smaller than what is technically "sand" grains and is "silt" grains instead, does that mean I want to ingest it? Hell no! Silt is just sand that has been ground up really fine. it's still the same thing.
    It is obvious that you still do not understand that silica can exist in different forms. Quartz is a CRYSTALLINE form, but Diatomaceous Earth is an AMORPHOUS form. Crushing either form does not change its original structure or properties.

    As an example consider Carbon. One CRYSTALLINE form is Diamond, whilst an AMORPHOUS form is activated charcoal. Crushing diamond will give you very expensive sand. Crushing activated charcoal will give you fine charcol powder.

    It is no more possible to produce CRYSTALLINE silica (quartz) by crushing diatomaceous earth, than it is to produce CRYSTALLINE carbon (diamond) by crushing charcoal.

    The diamond form of Carbon has certain properties such as hardness which makes it suitable for many industrial uses, but if you accidentally poison yourself, that form would not help. The emergency department will use the amorphous form (activated charcoal) to soak up and neutralize the poison.

    So it is with Silica. The properties of Quartz are very different from those of diatomaceous earth. DE particles carry a negative charge which attracts and binds many substances that have a positive charge, such as viruses, bacteria, heavy metals, etc. which are then excreted. This is why swallowing diatomaceous earth can have positive health benefits, whilst swallowing quartz sand will at best be neutral, and certainly not advisable. The other positive benefit of ingesting DE is that it is very slightly absorbed into the system, where it is an essential trace mineral, often lacking in the modern diet.

  8. #158
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    But fossilized diatoms are not crystalline. They are just rock.

    fossilization - YouTube

    As Dr. Dino explains in this youtube, organic remains are replaced by inorganic rock to form fossils. So when you see a fossilized dinosaur bone in the natural history museum, it is not really bone, it is rock in the shape of the original bone.

    Fossilized diatoms are just your basic rock in the shape of diatoms. Then they get ground up and become sand.

  9. #159
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    Here's some pictures of sand, (like, from beaches), under a microscope.


    http://www.sandgrains.com/sand-grains-gallery.html

    Yes. Diatoms are sand. (They're very pretty too.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Merv View Post
    ...

    So it is with Silica. The properties of Quartz are very different from those of diatomaceous earth. DE particles carry a negative charge which attracts and binds many substances that have a positive charge, such as viruses, bacteria, heavy metals, etc. which are then excreted. This is why swallowing diatomaceous earth can have positive health benefits, whilst swallowing quartz sand will at best be neutral, and certainly not advisable. The other positive benefit of ingesting DE is that it is very slightly absorbed into the system, where it is an essential trace mineral, often lacking in the modern diet.
    [citation needed ]

    Let's see some science.

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  10. #160
    Merv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    But fossilized diatoms are not crystalline. They are just rock.

    fossilization - YouTube

    As Dr. Dino explains in this youtube, organic remains are replaced by inorganic rock to form fossils. So when you see a fossilized dinosaur bone in the natural history museum, it is not really bone, it is rock in the shape of the original bone.

    Fossilized diatoms are just your basic rock in the shape of diatoms. Then they get ground up and become sand.
    I am unsure whether you seriously believe what you write on this topic, or if you are merely posting provocative statements in a futile attempt to win an argument against scientific knowledge.

    I specifically stated that diatomaceous rock was amorphous, so why do you come back with the statement "But fossilized diatoms are not crystalline"?? This is exactly what I tried to explain to you!!

    I did not claim that fossilized diatoms are crystalline: I thought I had made it perfectly clear that DE is an amorphous form of silica, not the quartz form (crystalline) that you continue to erroneously claim is identical.

    Your youtube link is of no use to me, as I have a dial-up connection; and I have never heard of Dr Dino (an obviously fake name akin to Dr Oz. I presume he is another TV "personality").

    The silicaseous component of a diatom is not organic, (as it contains no carbon), it is simply silica, otherwise known as silicon dioxide, and is not replaced by any other mineral when the alga dies and the skeleton becomes a component of rock. Most fossilized bone which was originally made up predominately of calcium, phosphorus, carbon, and oxygen is indeed replaced by SILICA. As is wood when it becomes fossilized or opalized. Calcium carbonate sea shells are not changed into any other form or replaced by silica, and become limestone rock. Silica diatom "shells" or "skeletons" become diatomaceous rock.

    There is no such thing as "JUST ROCK". There are thousands of different forms of rock, with many different chemical and physical constituents. Granite is a popular rock for benchtops: talc is another rock that just would not do the job, but is great as talcum powder.

    I note that other informed and serious contributers to this thread have previously given up on attempts to educate you on this ( and apparently other) topics, so I will waste no more time on this futile endeavour.

    I wish you well in your determined ignorance: I will continue to seek knowledge, enlightenment, and improved health, including the potential benefits of DE in my regime.

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