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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
    You are overtraining straight up! 3 days of compound lifting for up to 45 minutes is too much in spite of what some will say.
    Srsly? Then I'll assume you've never done Starting Strength.

    There's nothing at all wrong with doing M/W/F schedule of compound, heavy lifts. Eventually, when you're moving a ton of weight, then there might be a need to scale back to 2x per week.

    But assuming the OP chooses a proper starting weight, is increasing progressivley, and is eating like a CHAMP...then all is well.

    Though i suspect that OP is either lifting too heavy OR is failing to properly eat after his workouts.

    If you stick to a VLC eating plan PWO, you're probably going to be sore.

  2. #12
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    To put some of this in perspective - I've been more sore training 2/3 days per week and eating to lose weight than I have been lifting on a 40-day Dan John plan 4/5 days per week and eating to gain weight. So in my experience, soreness is much more about the quality of recovery (nutrition and sleep) than about the frequency of training.
    To Forever Young:
    If you need a full week to recover and gain reps then either a) you are already pretty strong and that's just what it takes, in which case 15 minutes workout isn't nearly enough, b) you are not eating enough to recover properly from workouts or c) you are leaving a lot of gains on the table and could make double or more the gains you are currently making. Also, I'm not sure why whatever someone is currently doing has to be the same thing they'd be willing to do for their entire lives - why can't someone spend a year or two getting in great shape and then switch to a less taxing maintenance program?
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

  3. #13
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    If you are actually working hard in the gym, some soreness will occur. I mean, you are causing significant trauma to a large portion of your body. Grok was sore after he hunted.

    If you think you are over-training, take it easy for a week. If the feeling returns right away, it wasn't over-training, which, contrary to what you read on here, true cases of are uncommon outside of high-level lifters/atheletes or EDs. You can also check your waking HR to get a y/n on whether you are overtraining. If it's elevated- you are over trained(or have adrenal fatigue).

    Things that will help:

    Carbs. Yup. A hefty chunk of carbs after your workout will help.
    More calories. This is likely your cause. Many people don't eat enough after working out. I need ~6k calories on a heavy workout day, and I'm not trying to gain weight(I'm actually leaning out a bit on that). That's just to recover. I'm not a huge guy, not really young, used to be fat, and generally don't have a huge caloric need. You may need more. You may need less. Experiment and find out.
    Sleep. You may need more than 8 hours, especially depending on quality. See if more helps.
    Mg. This is huge. Oral Mg supplements, and epsom salt baths both help me immensely.
    Contrast showers.
    Foam rollering.
    D3 seems to help me, though I'm not sure why.
    Sex with another person(much more than rubbing one out).
    Massages.

    That's a start.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    To put some of this in perspective - I've been more sore training 2/3 days per week and eating to lose weight than I have been lifting on a 40-day Dan John plan 4/5 days per week and eating to gain weight. So in my experience, soreness is much more about the quality of recovery (nutrition and sleep) than about the frequency of training.
    To Forever Young:
    If you need a full week to recover and gain reps then either a) you are already pretty strong and that's just what it takes, in which case 15 minutes workout isn't nearly enough, b) you are not eating enough to recover properly from workouts or c) you are leaving a lot of gains on the table and could make double or more the gains you are currently making. Also, I'm not sure why whatever someone is currently doing has to be the same thing they'd be willing to do for their entire lives - why can't someone spend a year or two getting in great shape and then switch to a less taxing maintenance program?
    +1

  5. #15
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    I'm going to go out on a different limb of this tree and say you need to compress your exercise, not reduce it.

    Move your runs and HIIT work to post workout, you don't have to stop them but you do need a day off in between lifts. I go into the gym on my "non-lifting days" and ride the bike at an easy pace for 20min, do a rotator cuff/knee ext/back ext (injury prevention work) circuit before jumping in the steam room and gtfo.

    I also try to line up my sports with my lifting days, so I'll go do heavy squats/bench in the morning and play ultimate or soccer in the evening of the same day and be fine to do heavy squats again 2 days later. Didn't work out so well when I was playing ultimate and then getting up the next day to lift.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Predator View Post
    rollering.
    That's not even a word. I look at you with stern derision.
    Last edited by federkeil; 02-13-2012 at 04:25 PM.
    I didn't like the rules you gave me, so I made some of my own.

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by federkeil View Post


    That's not even a word. I look at you with stern derision.
    Grammatical oppression is totally Neolithic.

  7. #17
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    Eucalyptus flavored Epsom salts
    Pro Massage
    walking
    resting
    honestly, some freakin Aleve. Sometimes the natural shit won't cut it.
    A change in perspective is worth 80 IQ points - Alan Kay

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by barefootbaby View Post
    Eucalyptus flavored Epsom salts
    Flavored? So do you eat these Epsom salts or bathe in them?

    Totally agree though,... epsom salts work wonders!

  9. #19
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    To tfarny,

    I agree that there is inherently nothing wrong with pushing the envelope for a period of time to maybe train for a competition or simply to look good at the beach. That said, we need to do it wisely. Overdoing anything for too long can and will lead to damage for example joint problems. This doesn't even take into consideration day to day fatigue etc. I don't know what age you are and that has much to do with ones goals. My goal now is to first and foremost feel great every day if not almost every single day. I'm talking about bouncing out of bed in the morning and having virtually inexhaustible energy. I'm talking about never needing to see a doctor for anything and never taking any drugs except in emergency situations. I'm talking about having few if any aches or pains. In short, excellent robust health. Anything less and all is not well. So for me it is indeed what is sustainable. This of course must be adjusted accordingly based on many factors over time. Does this mean I never change things up and up the ante so to speak? Of course not! I regularly come up with challenges to keep me growing inside and out. I just know at this point what works for me and what doesn't. I am very in tune with my body and can quickly tell if I'm overdoing things a bit.

    As to my 15 minutes? It would make lots of people puke and shake uncontrollably for some time. Its NOT an easy workout by any means. It is balls to wall. It works for me too as my strength improves by either more weight and or reps every workout. That is a measurable unit. I also sprint uphill usually, about once a week. Again this session is brutal. I don't hold back even a little. The results are seemingly miraculous though so that overcomes any dread about doing it.

    All this said, my orginal thought was that if the OP is always sore, he is likely not fully recovering from his training and better results would be forthcoming if he were. More is not always better. We should all get the exact right amount if possible. In some cases a little less than that is infinitely better than way too much. I've been on both sides of that equation!! Live and learn though.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
    To tfarny,

    I agree that there is inherently nothing wrong with pushing the envelope for a period of time to maybe train for a competition or simply to look good at the beach. That said, we need to do it wisely. Overdoing anything for too long can and will lead to damage for example joint problems. This doesn't even take into consideration day to day fatigue etc. I don't know what age you are and that has much to do with ones goals. My goal now is to first and foremost feel great every day if not almost every single day. I'm talking about bouncing out of bed in the morning and having virtually inexhaustible energy. I'm talking about never needing to see a doctor for anything and never taking any drugs except in emergency situations. I'm talking about having few if any aches or pains. In short, excellent robust health. Anything less and all is not well. So for me it is indeed what is sustainable. This of course must be adjusted accordingly based on many factors over time. Does this mean I never change things up and up the ante so to speak? Of course not! I regularly come up with challenges to keep me growing inside and out. I just know at this point what works for me and what doesn't. I am very in tune with my body and can quickly tell if I'm overdoing things a bit.

    As to my 15 minutes? It would make lots of people puke and shake uncontrollably for some time. Its NOT an easy workout by any means. It is balls to wall. It works for me too as my strength improves by either more weight and or reps every workout. That is a measurable unit. I also sprint uphill usually, about once a week. Again this session is brutal. I don't hold back even a little. The results are seemingly miraculous though so that overcomes any dread about doing it.

    All this said, my orginal thought was that if the OP is always sore, he is likely not fully recovering from his training and better results would be forthcoming if he were. More is not always better. We should all get the exact right amount if possible. In some cases a little less than that is infinitely better than way too much. I've been on both sides of that equation!! Live and learn though.
    However, those clearly aren't OP's goals, or he wouldn't be doing what he does.

    There are plenty of HIT vs. progressive barbell training threads, so I won't comment on that other than to say while we may not enjoy your workout, it would be quite unlikely for you to finish ours. If you want to do the minimum, fine, but let's help each other reach our goals, not try to change people's goals.

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