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  1. #1
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
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    Sugar Isn't The Problem. You're The Problem.

    Primal Fuel
    I'm in a bad mood. Hell, I'm downright pissed right now. I can't take the carbohydrate hatred anymore. I'm making a bold statement.

    NO ONE IS BORN INTOLERANT TO CARBOHYDRATE. CARBOHYDRATE IS NEVER THE PROBLEM. YOU'RE THE PROBLEM!

    I do not believe Type II Diabetes is caused by carbohydrate. At all.

    Fructose isn't poisonous. You aren't going to die by eating natural sources of fructose. Do you want fruit? Then eat a piece of fruit.

    Very low carbohydrate diets are counterproductive for virtually everyone. Where did this '50g of carbohydrate' number come from? It doesn't exist. How can you call yourself Primal and then adhere to an arbitrary number? Do you think Grok knew how many carbohydrates were in an apple, and how much of that sugar was evil, poisonous fructose? Puh-leez.

    So what's causing all the diseases of society? In my opinion, hormonal imbalance caused mainly by - FAT!

    I believe that the biggest killer of society is fat. Oh, but not all fat. Most fats are absolutely essential and healthy. It's omega 6 polyunsaturated fat causing nearly all of our diseases. It's worse for you than sugar. It's worse for you than grains. It's even worse for you than *gasp* gluten. Next time you're at a bar and remove the bun from your burger but eat those chicken wings deep fried in soybean oil, maybe you're actually eating the greater of two evils (minus the celiacs, of course!).

    Here's what I believe are the primary causes of Type II Diabetes:

    1.) Soy. Absolutely soy. Soy is the worst thing to ever happen to the world. I'll explain why later.

    2.) Omega 6 polyunsaturated fat. All of them.

    3.) Toxin accumulation from all sources - grains, legumes and to a lesser extent, nuts.

    4.) Snacking. There is a huge difference between eating 300g of carbs in one or two sittings and eating that in 5 to 6 sittings. Spiking blood glucose isn't necessarily unhealthy, but chronically elevated blood glucose from constant snacking is extremely unhealthy and will lead to insulin resistance. Again, it's not the fault of the carbohydrate, it's YOUR fault for treating your mouth like a vacuum.

    I believe that these diseases of society - heart attack, Type II Diabetes, stroke, cancer, etc - build up from chronic inflammation and chronic hormonal imbalance. In my opinion, it comes down to three big players:

    1.) Chronic systemic inflammation
    2.) Elevated estrogen/suppressed testosterone
    3.) Elevated cortisol

    Soy elevates levels of estrogen through the roof, is highly inflammatory and elevates cortisol. This causes everything from insulin resistance to breast/ovarian cancer to man boobs to the phenomenon of 13 year old girls looking like 19 year olds to male pattern baldness. It is worse for you than wheat. Stay the hell away from soy.

    Omega 6 polyunsaturated fats leave you in a constant state of inflammation. They are essential, yes, but should be limited to less than 3g a day. TOTAL.

    These things, along with chronic stress from every day life, leave cortisol levels constantly elevated. Cortisol is the stress hormone, and when it is elevated, it is destroying your body. This will make you hold onto fat, it will make your hair fall out, it will ruin your mood and destroy your sex drive.

    Notice how sugar is not on my list of "evil" things. I'm going to make a bold statement. Sugar is the ultimate test for your metabolic health. WHAT? What does that MEAN? Exactly that - if you can process a high level of sugar without crashing, you're probably in great metabolic health. I'm going to create something right now. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you:

    The Sugar Test

    Consume 100g of isolated sucrose.

    That's it. That's the sugar test. Ah, but it's not that easy! You must also consume the sugar in the presence of very little fat. We don't want to blunt the insulin response. We want a big reaction. In addition, we want to do it on a day we've been pretty sedentary. Anyone can handle 100g of sugar after a deadlift session. Yesterday was my deadlift day and I ate 300g of carbohydrate immediately post workout. I had so much energy I couldn't fall asleep til 1am, so don't even think of doing it after coming home from the gym. No, I want you to sit on your ass in the office all day, come home and eat an entire pint of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia frozen yogurt (because it's delicious, loaded with sugar, has no wheat or soy outside of lechithin, is very low fat and has next to no fiber - it's a pure sugar rush). If you don't have a sugar crash, you have a healthy metabolism! If you crash, you have some work ahead of you - and be aware that the lower you drop your carbs, the worse you will handle carbs. I recommend cycling your carbs - eat a day under 100g, then a day in the 200-300g range. You'll average around 150g, which is still very low per American standards, but it's plenty to keep your liver partially replete with glycogen at all times and therefore in a constant state of insulin sensitivity. LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIETS MAKE YOU INSULIN RESISTANT!!! Eating like this is the ultimate compromise - you are an efficient fat burner and an insulin-sensitive sugar burner. Metabolic flexibility for the win!

    Now, this is not an endorsement to eat sugar by the boatload. Processed sucrose is still junk, and don't even get me started on the poisons of isolated fructose and garbage like agave syrup and boiled honey. The problem is when people start a war against whole fruit, raw honey, organic maple syrup and blackstrap molasses and label them as poison. I wouldn't recommend raw honey, organic maple syrup and blackstrap molasses be used liberally, but they're not poisonous, and there is just no reason at all to avoid whole fruit as long as it fits into your daily caloric intake. It's not going to hurt you. Whole fructose, sucrose and starch, paired with all the natural enzymes and minerals that come with it, isn't unhealthy assuming you aren't constantly overeating your caloric needs, you haven't destroyed your metabolism with inflammatory fats/phytoestrogens/laboratory chemicals/snacking and you aren't eating artificial sweeteners/other laboratory chemical "foods".

    There may be a lot of you that instantly dismiss this. Consider this: it takes up to four years to remove excess omega 6 polyunsaturated fat from your system. If you're coming from the SAD eating high levels of omega 6 and now you're eating high levels of saturated fats, moderate levels of monounsaturated fats and low levels of omega 6, it will take up to four years to reconstruct your cell tissues to reflect this dietary change. That means you could be a staunch Primal veteran for the past two or three years and still be experiencing effects of high levels of PUFA's being expelled from your tissues to this day, impacting your ability to metabolize carbohydrate properly. Don't dismiss this. This is my challenge to you. Will you pass the sugar test?
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 02-07-2012 at 11:31 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  2. #2
    Croak's Avatar
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    Ever been fat, Choco? Ever consider people that don't live constantly surrounded by the smell of their own workout sweat? Ever been north of 30 years old?

    Because it sure looks like you're projecting a lot of n=1 anecdotes about the subject, from the perspective of a fitness obsessed and young person. Just sayin'.

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    Go Tribe's Avatar
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    Dude:

    Love your rant. However, this is just going to confuse the crap out of the newbies here who don't have the vast background that you do. Having just finished "Wheat Belly", I may disagree with you on the effects of sugars and carbs (advance glycation end products). And as a "healed" Type 2 Diabetic, I will most definitely disagree with you on the effects of wheat and excessive carb consumption on the health of the average individual in this country.
    Started 9/15/11 at 323 pounds
    2/16/13 at 241 pounds
    Goal is 223 pounds or less

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    I appreciate where you're coming from with this rant, and agree that low-carb extremism is often counter-productive ... however:

    Carbs =/= sugar.

    Excess fat and sugar consumption together with idleness have created the obesity epidemic. Fructose and glucose are completely different beasts. The liver handles a molecule of fructose the same whether it's come from sucrose, HFCS, fruit, honey or whatever.

    Starch is beneficial for building and maintaining muscle in active people who are not morbidly obese.
    Last edited by paleo-bunny; 02-07-2012 at 11:48 AM.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  5. #5
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Tribe View Post
    Dude:

    Love your rant. However, this is just going to confuse the crap out of the newbies here who don't have the vast background that you do. Having just finished "Wheat Belly", I may disagree with you on the effects of sugars and carbs (advance glycation end products). And as a "healed" Type 2 Diabetic, I will most definitely disagree with you on the effects of wheat and excessive carb consumption on the health of the average individual in this country.
    You are comparing a genetically modified poison unfit for human consumption to real, whole food. Grain consumption and sugar consumption are two wildly different things. Wheat is loaded with all kinds of awful poisons that punch holes in your gut, impair your intestine's ability to absorb and digest food and leave you in a state of systemic inflammation. You're not going to get this effect eating sweet potatoes, apples, bananas and raw honey. As long as you're skinning your sweet potatoes, there aren't any hazardous inflammatory toxins in those foods that are damaging your system. You're comparing two totally different things. I would rather eat 1,000g of carbohydrate from sweet potatoes and bananas than 50g of carbohydrate from wheat. I eat a kilo of sweet potatoes THREE TIMES A WEEK and I have never been healthier, stronger and more full of energy. If I did that with wheat I'd be a wreck.

    It's not the carbs. It's the individual food. Decades of wheat and soy consumption may have destroyed your ability to process sweet potatoes while you were a diabetic. That's not the fault of the sweet potatoes! They never did anything wrong. They were just collateral damage.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 02-07-2012 at 11:49 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    Agree with choco and I think that age has nothing to do with it. I'm, and I really hate admitting this, forty two and in great shape. I remember being told ten years go that everyone started to get fat by their forties. My plan is to keep eating right, working out, and I'll quit when it's time to take a dirt nap.

    It isn't carbs that are the enemy of fitness. Carbs are fuel for fitness as long as they're the right kind of foods in reasonable proportion to one's activity level. I think it's important to learn which carbohydrates sources are healthy and to stick to those. Idealizing high fat foods is a mistake that leads to plateaus and frequently failure to reach one's desired fitness goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    I appreciate where you're coming from with this rant, and agree that low-carb extremism is often counter-productive ... however:

    Carbs =/= sugar.

    Excess fat and sugar consumption together with idleness have created the obesity epidemic. Fructose and glucose are completely different beasts. The liver handles a molecule of fructose the same whether it's come from sucrose, HFCS, fruit, honey or whatever.

    Starch is beneficial for building and maintaining muscle in active people who are not morbidly obese.
    And I'm saying an apple isn't worse for you than a sweet potato, even though it contains a lot more fructose. Fructose isn't a problem until you strip it from all the natural enzymes that come with it. I'm against fish oil consumption for the same reason. Isolated foods are problematic because you're taking away the coenzymes and minerals along for the ride that help you digest it.

    Sweet potatoes are better than apples post workout because they generate more insulin and that is desirable post workout, but they're not inherently healthier than apples because apples have more fructose. Fructose is bad when you're eating isolated fructose - which will never happen if you're Primal because isolated fructose doesn't exist in nature!
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #8
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    Agreed. But see how someone can misconstrue your comments? Carbs mean a lot of different things to different people.

    I still can't get my head around your "low carb diet makes you insulin resistant" comment either. From all my research and personal experience, its just the opposite.
    Started 9/15/11 at 323 pounds
    2/16/13 at 241 pounds
    Goal is 223 pounds or less

  9. #9
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    What would you recommend to completely sedentary obese people, then?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Croak View Post
    Ever been fat, Choco? Ever consider people that don't live constantly surrounded by the smell of their own workout sweat? Ever been north of 30 years old?

    Because it sure looks like you're projecting a lot of n=1 anecdotes about the subject, from the perspective of a fitness obsessed and young person. Just sayin'.
    This...

    What about people who AREN'T you? People who are much older, have really damaged metabolisms, have legitimate medical issues that prevent hard core gym workouts (sprinting and LHT)... not every one is YOU, not everyone can eat what you eat and be successful. Not everyone can even eat that "Cherry Garcia" ... some people will spend the next 24hours miserable and needing to never be more than 5 steps from a toilet!

    That said I don't tend to all out vilify things (except for highly processed packaged products... there isn't any thing good inside that wrapper EVER IMO)... refined sugar: I might have a bit now and then, special occasion splurges and whatnot, fructose: I eat some fruit, it doesn't scare me but I don't eat several servings every day more like a few a week, dairy: well it makes me sick (lactose intolerance) YMMV and all that, but I also just found out that RAW milk doesn't make me sick so dairy and I are friends again, wheat: don't need it, don't want it.... and so on and so forth.

    HOWEVER, I never assume that other people will have my same tolerances, metabolism, or diet needs. And, honestly, you probably shouldn't either... until you actually BEEN an overweight, metabolically challenged, about 40yr old woman with the insane hormone issues that go with that, who is physically limited due to real medical reasons that are ongoing and chronic since the age of about 25...

    The truth is you could probably help a lot of people... if you didn't come across as such a loud mouthed kid who knows EVERYTHING, and how it WILL work for everyone no matter what their issues are, due to his own n=1 experience in a LOW BF% 24yo male body that is super healthy and strong.

    Great YOU eat a kilo of sweet potatoes 3x a week ... if I eat more than half of a medium one with a meal I feel like I've had enough, if I ate a whole one I'd feel bloated and awful, if I tried for a second one I'm pretty sure I'd freaking puke. I eat a half sweet potato with a chopped medjool date in it about 1x per week, maybe 2.
    Your n=1 =/= the n=1 of every other person. Period.

    Different people at different stages of life and metabolism have DIFFERENT needs. Some people need lower carb amounts... some, like you, can eat lots! Hell... when I was in my early 20's I could eat whatever the fuck I wanted, when ever I wanted, and not gain an ounce. That part of my life is over... that part of my life ended when I was diagnosed with a chronic degenerative disease at 25.

    Your OPINION is NOT my REALITY....
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


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