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Thread: Sugar Isn't The Problem. You're The Problem. page 89

  1. #881
    FrenchFry's Avatar
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    @poing
    Yeah, I don't know enough myself and cortisol would definitely have say in these matters. But note that over time, VLC'ers experience elevated _fasting_ blood glucose levels (in the 120-130 range, compared to a more normal range of 80-90). but why does it happen so slowly over time ? If you become VLC all of a sudden, wouldn't you use the cortisol - gluconeogenesis right then because your cells and brain are very dependent on glucose ? Then when ketosis kicks in and becomes the norm, why would the cortisol - GNG process be predominant ? It sounds to me counter-intuitive ...

  2. #882
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    @Frenchfry because insulin resistance develops gradually? It won't happen overnight.

    Only people with insulin secretion problems have trouble with "life threatening levels of ketosis"... which suggests to me that insulin and ketosis are significantly related to this problem somehow.

    Doesn't a person have to maintain blood sugar levels through gluconeogenesis even though they are in ketosis?

    I have a lot more questions than answers. I wish I'd studied human biology!

  3. #883
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    @poing
    Looks like that guy has a truckload of articles about it: Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

    it will take a while reading through all of this ...

  4. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    I quite agree with that except for one thing: I don't see chocolate as paleo. Nuts and seeds ? yes. Are they healthy ? maybe, maybe not. I don't eat them really but others do, and I don't care. But chocolate ? ... since when is it paleo ?
    Not that it matters, I eat dark chocolate regularly and I couldn't care less about "paleo" as such. Actually, the more I see it, the more I think I am pretty close to the PHD, except that I do beans once in a while: soak the beans for at least 24h, boil them hard for 10-15mn, then simmer for like 2 hours - eat some, cool them down, stir-fry the day after ... that is why I don't make it a staple: a pain in the butt to prepare ...
    I would rather eat healthy things that aren't paleo than unhealthy things that are paleo. Paleo is an interesting (mostly fictional) story and a decent starting place for most people. It was for me. But you have to...no pun intended...evolve your thought process past that. Nearly everything about "Grok" is a wild assumption. You have to take a whole-foods mindset and experiment to find out the foods that best nourish you. Chances are it's probably a lot less burgers and fries and a lot more steak and potatoes, and if you're like 99% of the population and can't be a totally perfect eater, chocolate is probably a great treat to give you mental diet breaks.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #885
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    I don't think we disagree you know

  6. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by @lex View Post
    Good job exaggerating and missing an otherwise good point.He's not saying eat whatever you want,nor is he dismissing people out of spite,he's simply saying that low carb isn't always the answer to a health problem or the key to long term health.He's mainly addressing people that have healed a lot of the damage they've done yet still stick to the low carb dogma and end up running into problems,which happens much more often then most low carb people would care to admit.It's been said numerous times in this thread that if you've damaged your body and your metabolism is a mess then low carb is a great way to lose weight and repair the damage,but once the damage is repaired and the person is healthy and active the carb paranoia needs to stop.I've actually seen people being paranoid over a single apple on this forum.....an apple,on Mark's daily apple,if you don't see a problem with that line of thinking then there isn't much to say.It's all this low carb dogma and fear of a macro-nutrient that gets paleo thrown in with fad diets and wackjobs.Once an average person is healthy there's no reason for them to avoid carbs to the extent that some people suggest in the paleo community,because carbs from a healthy source are perfectly fine and humans have thrived on them for literally millions of years.

    Also,believe it or not,some people don't see magical results when they go low carb,and if nobody in the community explains why we need to stop vilifying carbs the people that do poorly on the one recommendation that's spammed mindlessly at them are bound to become confused and lose hope,or worst yet keep plowing forward on a diet that their body is telling them isn't right for them.

    Paleo is not low carb,it's low toxin,and that distinction absolutely needs to be made for the betterment of everyone involved.
    Dude, you need to put a space after comma's, and 2 spaces after a period.....just sayin.....

    btw, I agree with a lot of what you and Choco are saying, based on my own experience and experimentation, which is still evolving....but the 'bedside manner' leaves a little to be desired.....I know Choco isn't interested in being subtle, but a lot of people simply won't respond to a too direct approach, kinda sad but true....that being said, I still haven't truly tried ketosis, think I will soon, then I will probably start incorporating healthy carbs again....I don't think too many people on here will disagree with you that healthy, high quality foods, no matter what the macro, is the key, and is a basic tenet of PB.
    Last edited by Barnyard; 10-04-2013 at 08:36 AM.
    The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

    M, 56, 6'0
    SW - 192
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    Current addiction: ice cream (and sugar in general).....doing battle with it!

  7. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaGrok View Post
    FF'ing to the end because there is too much of the same yada yada...




    But that's not what you titled the post. You didn't say "Sugar isn't the problem (if you're not metabolically deranged like over half of the American populace). You're the Problem."

    You're saying CARBS ARE NEVER THE PROBLEM LAME-O'S!
    Others are saying CARBS ARE ALWAYS A PROBLEM LAME-O!

    The reality is, almost no one alive today has grown up avoiding the processed foods of modern commerce. Some are young enough that their bodies haven't fallen apart yet on it. I was like that 10 years ago. Maybe then I could have gone straight from SAD to primal with lots of primal carbs. The person who is still young enough not to have metabolic damage, and lucky enough to find a primal/paleo way of eating, is rare indeed.

    So folks like you need to understand that it's incorrect and useless to go around saying things like "Carbs are never a problem, people are" and folks like me need to understand that it's incorrect and useless to go around saying things like "Carbs are dangerous and should be avoided." The reality is that primal carbs are perfectly healthful for someone who has not imbibed industrial foods long enough to damage himself, while they often are not for those who have. And the latter group is not at all small.

    Neither blanket statement is useful. And long dull threads like this could be avoided entirely if we all understood both sides of this story.


    BTW, I'm no longer borderline insulin resistant. My IR score is way, way low. But I still can't handle carbs yet. I will, some day. Not yet. It's not just IR playing here.
    +1....well said MamaGrok!
    The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

    M, 56, 6'0
    SW - 192
    CW - 175
    GW - 165-170

    Current addiction: ice cream (and sugar in general).....doing battle with it!

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I would rather eat healthy things that aren't paleo than unhealthy things that are paleo.
    So, uh what Paleo things are unhealthy?

    There are some borderline not-exactly-whole foods, but they aren't Paleo. They are in the Primal 20%. Example: whey powder.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  9. #889
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    IMO, nuts, seeds, lard, bacon, turkey, veggies, fish oil.

  10. #890
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    So, uh what Paleo things are unhealthy?
    I don't think any paleo foods are "unhealthy" but as you eat a limited range of foods, some foods may veer into unhealthy. Like nuts. A handful of nuts every so often is different then consuming a cup of almond meal every day. Same with bacon. Yeah, a few strips here and there. But with every meal? It's probably on the verge of a bad idea. And I think it's unhealthy to eat such a limited number of foods (I mean people who basically eat meat and few veggies and then straight up fat). Like throw some fruit in there.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
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