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Thread: Sugar Isn't The Problem. You're The Problem. page 88

  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think the problem is that for a lot of women, it takes a lot of restriction to get to the 20% and below body fat that is so beloved. So no, actually most women can't get the body they want eating treats even once or twice a week.

    The average woman in the US is 5'4 and about 155lbs. BMI around 25. The biggest issue, outside of people being very overweight and really needing a diet overhaul, are women of average and healthy weights trying to get down to weights that aren't exactly healthy or conducive to reproduction and assuming it can be accomplished in a simple healthy manner.

    So, no for me to get to 18% or 20% body fat is not going to include ice cream, nutella or any type of "treat".
    I don't know-- When I used to eat high fat (over 50% of calories), I felt like I was restricting myself (wanted carbs but thought they were bad). Now I consume carbs liberally, over 50-60% daily, and I don't feel like I'm restricting myself. I do keep fat lower now so I don't overdo the calories, but I don't have any cravings on a high sugar diet, mostly from fruit, rice, and dairy. Back when eating high fat, I'd always eat a lot of cake on special occasions, or crave chocolate everyday.. now it's all gone.

    I wouldn't have believed this 6 months ago about a high carb diet, but having experimented for myself, I concluded there's nothing wrong with sugar. I'm not trying to lose weight but I've lost weight. Anyway, I'm 5'4" and at 20ish% body fat. Women do need fat to reproduce so I'm not trying to get thinner right now.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarielleGO View Post
    ChocoTaco, I just read your post that started this thread.. ah well your rant... year like said before you are confusing me like hell but I do agree with you that Grok surely didn't know what he was eating only that it wasn't killing him and that he got food in his stomach...

    I wonder as you are a regular here, do you eat just general healthy unprocessed foods? or do you eat grains as well? Just curious about what you eat when you have such an outspoken opinion that it not completely inline with what Mark says in his book.
    This is a pretty old thread. I have greatly refined my approach since I wrote this thread way back when, but I still strongly agree that sugar is just a scapegoat. What are you confused about?

    I generally eat unprocessed food. There are a few exceptions. I do eat some grain. I eat nixtamalized corn tortillas (I recommend Whole Foods brand) and I grind hominy into polenta. I do enjoy grits post-workout. I'm not opposed to white rice, but I do not make it for myself because it's very boring to me. It's more of an "if you're going to make me dinner or if it comes with a meal I'll happily eat it" thing. If you think I'm eating sushi without rice you're smoking something.

    There are a lot of things in paleo/Primal that I believe make little sense. For example, hominy/nixtamalized corn, white rice and most legumes are much "cleaner" than nuts. Not only are nuts one of the most allergenic things recognized by the USDA, but their lectin and phytate content are higher than any grain or legume. I completely understand the blacklist on wheat and soy, but to be honest with you, black beans are much healthier than almonds assuming you simply soak/wash them and boil/pressure cook them. Do I eat beans? No, not really, but I'm not going to tell you they're unhealthy simply because they "aren't paleo." Just because something is "paleo" doesn't make it healthy and just because something isn't "paleo" doesn't mean it's unhealthy.

    Paleo/Primal is a fantastic starting point because it'll increase your meat, fruit, vegetable and egg consumption while simultaneously removing the real baddies - seed oils, wheat, soy, artificial sweeteners, colorings, gums, preservatives and all those nasty things you can't pronounce on packages. For the more benign gray areas - corn, oatmeal, rice, refined sugars, beans, peanut butter, quinoa, buckwheat, etc - you may find you can include them in your diet without hurting your goals or your health. OR you may find you have sensitivities. I recommend elimination dieting - remove it all but meat and fruit (since these are the least allergenic things out there) for 30 days and slowly add other things in bit by bit to see your individual tolerances. You may find foods you're avoiding make you feel great and foods you think are healthy because they are "paleo" are weighing you down (like nuts, seeds, chocolate and other potential allergens).
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I wouldn't call adrenal fatigue a rare condition given our societies predisposition for chronic stress that tends to lead to such things. I will agree that self diagnosis without sufficient testing isn't the best way of going about knowing what is actually going on though. However, I don't think that "Moar thyroid" is the panacea to every single ailment that is plaguing mankind. And I'm also quite certain that most people with adrenal fatigue are already getting far more than their fair share of sugar. They don't need more of it. Really it's just not that simple. There is no panacea, and the further you move from health the more nuanced the recommendations for your return to it may need to be. I don't think that holds for the majority, but it certainly does for the very ill. Its in those cases that recs should only be made based on extensive health history, exam, and lab testing.
    I think adrenal fatigue is extremely rare, if not non-existent. The people that say they have it are almost always self-diagnosed, and anyone professionally diagnosed are probably misdiagnosed.

    Not everything is a thyroid issue, that is true. But the problem is that chronic stress often affects the thyroid since it is the overall driver of the metabolism. If you are having health problems, you are having metabolic problems. If you are having metabolic problems, it is probably screwing with your thyroid/adrenal/hypothalmus somehow because they are an intricate system that any hormonal imbalance screws with. But that doesn't mean it is a problem with that system - the challenge is finding the cause.

    I am moving my mindset toward the "bioenergetic view" of health. Rather than the short-sighted approach of treating symptoms like the modern medical establishment does, I look at illness as the overall health of the "cell." We are all composed of cells, and if we are sick in any way, then some or all of our cells are sick in some way. This means every disease not caused by outside means (an infection, physical trauma, etc) is some type of metabolic imbalance. Virtually every endogenous condition can be explained by some type of hormonal imbalance, so it's my goal to try and correct those imbalances in people.

    Up until a month ago, I had never heard of a cluster headache before. My girlfriend's father gets them HORRIBLY for a month every single year. He just started his cycle in September. I've been doing feverish research, and I noticed during the summer when we went to the beach together he had an abnormal propensity to sweat. That signals an aldosterone issue typically. I had him get a thyroid panel, and it came back normal. I am assuming given his age and his propensity to sweat, he is likely experiencing some type of "andropause" that older males will get. I got him some DHEA pills and progesterone cream for women. He has been on it for 3 days and he is headache-free. She just texted me to tell me he said to thank me because he thinks this snapped him out of his cycle. His neuro for years was completely stumped and can't help him, but I can snap him out of his cycle in a week?

    Huh?

    It's an amazing viewpoint and I'm falling in love with it. I really think it's the secret to curing disease.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #874
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    RE: Sugar is better for thyroid function in women than fat.

    My 72 year old mother in law was taking 75mg thyroid medication, me and my wife convinced her to change to TPB 'diet' (I hate using that word because its misused so much) anyway, she had a check up the other day and the doctor cut the thyroid tablets to 50mg, blood pressure is down, cholesterol down, anxiety attacks gone, hot flashes reduced... This is only two months after beginning TBP.

    So in real world practice, our experience is very different to yours, not saying you're wrong, but its not what we experienced at all, its the complete opposite.


    My PB & Workout Log
    Last edited by monkspeed; 10-02-2013 at 10:43 PM.

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is a pretty old thread. I have greatly refined my approach since I wrote this thread way back when, but I still strongly agree that sugar is just a scapegoat. What are you confused about?
    It was confusing to me that somebody who obviously is a regular and very familiar with TPB states that something so high on carbs as sugar isn't all to bad for you, especially when in TPB it's so clearly advocated that carbs aren't in ones best interest.
    When I read your post I'm just finishing the chapters on the eating principles of TPB and am trully convinced that for my body at least the low sugar/ low carb idea of eating is the best sollution. and I thought everybody here felt the same.
    But I totally understand your point. You eat what makes you strongest and feel good in the long term.

    I don't eat beans because I don't like them and I don't eat potatoes because I get sick from the starch. But when I have a home-made curry you bet I'm eating it with a little bit of wild rice.

    It's been very interesting to read your p.o.v. and learned me that I still have tons to learn about what's good to eat and what not... like you said process of elimination...

  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarielleGO View Post
    It was confusing to me that somebody who obviously is a regular and very familiar with TPB states that something so high on carbs as sugar isn't all to bad for you, especially when in TPB it's so clearly advocated that carbs aren't in ones best interest.
    When I read your post I'm just finishing the chapters on the eating principles of TPB and am trully convinced that for my body at least the low sugar/ low carb idea of eating is the best sollution. and I thought everybody here felt the same.
    But I totally understand your point. You eat what makes you strongest and feel good in the long term.

    I don't eat beans because I don't like them and I don't eat potatoes because I get sick from the starch. But when I have a home-made curry you bet I'm eating it with a little bit of wild rice.

    It's been very interesting to read your p.o.v. and learned me that I still have tons to learn about what's good to eat and what not... like you said process of elimination...
    It seems to me people go thru stages in 'diet', coming to PB to improve health/lose weight, which usually works for awhile because the diet focuses on whole foods and eliminates processed food. Then PB stops working optimally and people start to question their woe and consider alternatives.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Paleo/Primal is a fantastic starting point because it'll increase your meat, fruit, vegetable and egg consumption while simultaneously removing the real baddies - seed oils, wheat, soy, artificial sweeteners, colorings, gums, preservatives and all those nasty things you can't pronounce on packages. For the more benign gray areas - corn, oatmeal, rice, refined sugars, beans, peanut butter, quinoa, buckwheat, etc - you may find you can include them in your diet without hurting your goals or your health. OR you may find you have sensitivities. I recommend elimination dieting - remove it all but meat and fruit (since these are the least allergenic things out there) for 30 days and slowly add other things in bit by bit to see your individual tolerances. You may find foods you're avoiding make you feel great and foods you think are healthy because they are "paleo" are weighing you down (like nuts, seeds, chocolate and other potential allergens).
    I quite agree with that except for one thing: I don't see chocolate as paleo. Nuts and seeds ? yes. Are they healthy ? maybe, maybe not. I don't eat them really but others do, and I don't care. But chocolate ? ... since when is it paleo ?
    Not that it matters, I eat dark chocolate regularly and I couldn't care less about "paleo" as such. Actually, the more I see it, the more I think I am pretty close to the PHD, except that I do beans once in a while: soak the beans for at least 24h, boil them hard for 10-15mn, then simmer for like 2 hours - eat some, cool them down, stir-fry the day after ... that is why I don't make it a staple: a pain in the butt to prepare ...

  8. #878
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    Wish I had the time to read this whole thread, but about five pages is as much as I can manage in one sitting.

    Chocotaco369, is there any chance you could explain in more detail why VLC makes a person insulin resistant? I think you're right! And I know a lady who controls her diet to the extent that she won't eat any vegetable with more than 5% carb content... There's an argument that when your food is that low in carbs, the bacteria in your gut get most of them, so it might as well be a zero carb diet. I think she's so low carb that it's creating insulin resistance, but I can't convince her to ease up. Her insulin goes borderline high when she eats, even on such a controlled diet, although her blood glucose control comes up as good also because her diet is so controlled. I think she's controlling symptoms but making the underlying condition worse. She has thyroid issues and PCOS too, and I'm sure her diet is compounding those problems.

    My own N=1 experience isn't a persuasive enough argument. All I know is that my sex hormones fell off a cliff after one WEEK of low carb, so I packed it in. I don't eat high carb in the first place because I eat gluten free and soon decided that the replacement foods were so chemical laden and foul that I wasn't going to eat them. But the extra step of cutting out starches was a bad move. Funnily enough, after a summer indulging in too much B&J, my hormones seem much more balanced and my weight is stable (weight is not a problem for me). So it seems that a bit of sugar is actually beneficial. The world is a strange place!

    In anticipation of a reply...

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by poing View Post
    Chocotaco369, is there any chance you could explain in more detail why VLC makes a person insulin resistant?
    In anticipation of a reply...
    I am not CT but I can give my guess: if you only rely on fat and ketones, and you don't provide your body some dietary sugar (glucose, starch, or what-not that makes it into glucose), your muscles and organs lose the ability to use glucose to some extent because you are running on fat even for things that usually would use glucose (even the brain, that glucose addict, will run on ketones, and the little glucose it truly needs can be made by gluneogenesis). In this absence of elevated blood glucose level, your cells are learning not to expect it so they don't really care anymore about glucose. You end up with fasting blood glucose level that very slowly goes up over time (can take months or even years of VLC but you eventually get there). Isn't it funny ?? You start with low fasting BG levels when going VLC, and you end up at high FBG after years of VLC ... really funny! You basically teach your body to shut down some metabolic pathways because they are very little used over time. Of course, as soon as you resume glucose intake, these pathways are opening again right away! No worry there ...

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    I am not CT but I can give my guess: if you only rely on fat and ketones, and you don't provide your body some dietary sugar (glucose, starch, or what-not that makes it into glucose), your muscles and organs lose the ability to use glucose to some extent because you are running on fat even for things that usually would use glucose
    Thanks for your ideas. I have a slightly different theory, although its more of a gut feeling really.

    When blood sugar is too low, we release more cortisol and even adrenaline to bring it back up... if you've ever been "hypoglycemic" when you get shakey and irritable, then you're using more adrenaline than cortisol to do it. I put "hypoglycemic" in quotes because blood sugars will actually be fine, but they are only fine because your body gave itself a big kick. Since there isnt' much glucose coming in from outside on a VLC diet, the body uses cortisol to keep blood glucose levels up via gluconeogensis, elevated cortisol renders the cells insulin resistant, because cortisol counteracts the effects of insulin, so you need more insulin to control blood sugar levels, and it gets worse over time.
    Last edited by poing; 10-03-2013 at 02:49 AM.

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