Primal pet chatter =) page 9

[Fabbecky]

Thanks for the responses on hunting with dogs. I found out that it is illegal to use dogs to hunt big game in New York state. :P

But thanks to an early suggestion of putting a request for meat on craigslist, I have gotten 2 very helpful responses this week to food for my dogs. One has a freezer full of meat that is "too old" for her family. She assures me it has been frozen solid in a deep freeze for over a year, I am meeting up with her in March to get some meat. Another told me to contact the local sheriff as a resource, and ask them to give me a call when they find road-killed deer that are fresh and still of decent quality so I can gather and butcher that for the animals too. We have so many deer around here... I see at least one on the side of the road every day.

[RitaRose]

...the White dog is Argentina’s national dog Dogo Argentino...

Ooh, that's what I thought!

A Dogo is one of only two breeds that scare the crap out of me (along with Akitas) because you don't know they hate you until they're on top of you. They don't really bark at all, they just stare at you like they're not bugged at all. And then you're lunch.

It's my job to (legally) walk into people's backyards unannounced to read their utility meter, sometimes 200 times in a day, so there's no time to knock on every door. You just takes your chances and act more badass than the dog if they get aggressive, and then they mostly back down or you can just not go in. And you can USUALLY tell if a dog doesn't want you there and thinks you'd look tasty between two slices of bread - except with a Dogo or an Akita. They'll both pretend they don't even see you until you're all the way in the yard and can't get out. So... I just don't go in with them anywhere nearby.

Sorry for the rant and "holy crap" post.

[RitaRose]

It also doesn't help that he learned that food=love from his time at the shelter.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Animals can have emotional attachments to food just like humans do. If the only time he got attention at the shelter was feeding time, then you're right, food=love.

[gottaluvalab]

Hola Mixie--- thanks for all the help---here I post some primal wild boar ribs, hunted in a primitive Dog and man fashion, I am just starting but being teh type that likes to grow, hunt and build his own I am excited at the great possibilities this new life style provides--- Now to learn how to make my own butter, yogurt and cheese.

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these are some of my hunting companions;
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Thats me (currently 60lbs over weight and FEELING IT) with Luna, BUT in 30 days you wont recognize me so pay it no attention.
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My friends dog Lucho
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Beautiful and interesting dogs!

I have retrievers. Retriever trainers are notoriously the micro-managers of the dog-trainer world--which makes sense. Most hunting dogs chase--some chase and miss (flush)--some chase and then stop (point, set).

Retrievers are expected to chase, return on command if the chase goes on too long, pick up the quarry without a kill bite, return, and THEN give up the prey.

It would be very interesting to see a wild boar/feral pig hunt with dogs. Nasty critters (the pigs), so destructive and invasive.

How dangerous is it for the dogs? Micro-manager that I am, I don't think I'd have the stomach to let my dogs go after a feral pig, even if that's what they'd been bred for.

[mixie]

Ooh, that's what I thought!

A Dogo is one of only two breeds that scare the crap out of me (along with Akitas) because you don't know they hate you until they're on top of you. They don't really bark at all, they just stare at you like they're not bugged at all. And then you're lunch.

Well, a dogo is supposed to be a pack hunting dog. Character-wise, the standard calls for "frank, humble, cheerful, friendly". On the flip side, they're bred not to bark game, since a running hog can put a lot of space between the dogs and themselves if they hear them coming, and there are some interesting quotes from the early days of dogo breeding about how that plays out in a property guardian situation... so you're right to note that there's not a lot of vocalization there. But their body language isn't any different from any other breed.

I wouldn't be afraid of dogos, in general, but it seems like it might be worth your while to contact the owner and ask to be introduced to the dog if only to alleviate your own fear. Dogos have a fantastic sense of character and I've never had issues with anyone coming into my house without me present who had reason to be there. They can definitely sense "sketchiness" though and if you're nervous and acting suspicious that alone is a draw. There was a recent issue of The Dog Whisperer that focused on a pool cleaner who was generally fearful of dogs, which I know isn't your issue, but it had a great review of body language and how to tell a "still, silent" aggressive dog from an unconcerned animal who just isn't paying you much attention. A dog that is "staring" at you is definitely telling you something.
There are a handful of breeds I'd be far more cautious about than these, though, at least in terms of human-reactive breeding history.

I think there's a lot of "urban legend" about dogos going around with municipal workers. I was walking down the street with my dogo just minding our own business and sniffing the flowers when a couple line workers with the local utility board stopped what they were doing, jumped up and scrambled backward off the curb to avoid us. They both had instantly recognized him and said some yahoo did a "presentation" on dangerous dog breeds and scared the shit out of everyone in the building. I gave them my card and volunteered to bring my dog in and show them what a friendly dog looks like (as opposed to a watchful, aggressive dog of any breed) but never got a phone call.

Do you run into many dogos in your area?

[RitaRose]

I wouldn't be afraid of dogos, in general, but it seems like it might be worth your while to contact the owner and ask to be introduced to the dog if only to alleviate your own fear. Dogos have a fantastic sense of character and I've never had issues with anyone coming into my house without me present who had reason to be there. They can definitely sense "sketchiness" though and if you're nervous and acting suspicious that alone is a draw. There was a recent issue of The Dog Whisperer that focused on a pool cleaner who was generally fearful of dogs, which I know isn't your issue, but it had a great review of body language and how to tell a "still, silent" aggressive dog from an unconcerned animal who just isn't paying you much attention. A dog that is "staring" at you is definitely telling you something.
There are a handful of breeds I'd be far more cautious about than these, though, at least in terms of human-reactive breeding history.

I think there's a lot of "urban legend" about dogos going around with municipal workers. I was walking down the street with my dogo just minding our own business and sniffing the flowers when a couple line workers with the local utility board stopped what they were doing, jumped up and scrambled backward off the curb to avoid us. They both had instantly recognized him and said some yahoo did a "presentation" on dangerous dog breeds and scared the shit out of everyone in the building. I gave them my card and volunteered to bring my dog in and show them what a friendly dog looks like (as opposed to a watchful, aggressive dog of any breed) but never got a phone call.

Do you run into many dogos in your area?

Unfortunately, I might not even see the dog until it's too late to knock. A barking dog is preferable to me since I can sense what kind of bark they're giving me. Sometimes it's just bluffing, sometimes they want to play and sometimes they're super aggressive. No sound at all is hard to work with (and I might not even see them if they're really still), so I'm stuck with body language alone. But a perfectly still dog is usually not a friendly one, so I see that and leave immediately. You know, like when a dog is moving around sniffing you, and then he just stops moving and looks at you out of the corner of his eye - you know he's thinking about biting.

We have a lot of dogs here, and the older houses have the meters in the back, so that's where I have to go. I'm in Vegas, and there are plenty (of various breeds) that have been mistreated (fed gunpowder to make them aggressive, used for dog fighting, chained to a car all day every day) or trained to actually attack people. If you've got a meth lab in your shed or you're stealing utilities, you definitely don't want "visitors", and many people train their dogs to attack utility workers specifically.

I think my nervousness comes from the fact that drug dealers/producers tend to use this particular breed, not that the breed itself has anything wrong with it at all, combined with the difficulty in reading the dog as easily as other breeds. For instance, Pit Bulls are commonly used by people in the drug trade, and some are scary as hell while the majority are big overgrown sweethearts. But they're easier to read. It's not so much the breed as the type of owner that tends to want them, and how they train them. I've even seen a Pit turn on its owner when it saw him as a threat to me, so it knew I was okay and the owner probably was mistreating him. Seems like a natural reaction for any creature.

Fortunately for me, I'm usually a really good judge of dogs' personalities. The weird thing is, my coworkers are mostly male, but the females tend to be better at reading and handling the dogs. Just something else I've noticed over the years.

[mixie]

I think my nervousness comes from the fact that drug dealers/producers tend to use this particular breed

Have you actually seen a lot of dogos in your area? This is the same stuff my local utility workers told me, that the area is riddled with meth labs and that dogos were the breed of choice and scary as hell. As far as I'm aware, mine is the only one in this half of the state.
I am definitely not discounting your personal experiences if you truly have met a legion of stealthy, aggressive dogos, just unhappy to see my breed being portrayed as the next "bad guy dog" du jour with all the same hyperbole previously ascribed to every other "bad guy dog" breed, complete with the "gunpowder" urban legend. I'd also take strong exception to the notion that only bad people are the kind that "tend to want" bully breeds; that's the same reasoning that PETA/HSUS/ASPCA use when campaigning to kill more bulldogs of any variety. Although I absolutely know that you did NOT intend it that way, it really hurts good dog owners everywhere whose neighbors hear stuff like that and can't help but believe it.

[RitaRose]

I would love to say it's all a myth, but unfortunately, it's not. While the vast majority of people doing things they shouldn't don't have them, they're becoming much more common. It's kind of a vicious circle - the dog gets the reputation for being the current "badass dog of the year", and then every guy that's doing bad stuff has to have one. That doesn't mean people that have them are bad, just that they are more attractive than some other breeds to bad people.

I didn't mean to offend, and I'm not saying all of this or any other breed are good or bad. Dogs, in my viewpoint, are not good or bad to begin with, just well or poorly trained/treated. In all of this, I'm just saying what I have personally seen and experienced. Bad people treat dogs badly and in turn create dogs that aren't well socialized. And I have to deal with them on a daily basis with nothing to defend myself except a dog stick. No pepper spray or anything (we get fired). So I've had to learn to assess what the situation is based on what I have seen and experienced, which may or may not be fair or polite, but my personal experience with the dogs in my part of the world keeps me from getting killed. They may not be the same everywhere.

[mixie]

I would love to say it's all a myth, but unfortunately, it's not. While the vast majority of people doing things they shouldn't don't have them, they're becoming much more common. It's kind of a vicious circle - the dog gets the reputation for being the current "badass dog of the year", and then every guy that's doing bad stuff has to have one. That doesn't mean people that have them are bad, just that they are more attractive than some other breeds to bad people.

I didn't mean to offend, and I'm not saying all of this or any other breed are good or bad. Dogs, in my viewpoint, are not good or bad to begin with, just well or poorly trained/treated. In all of this, I'm just saying what I have personally seen and experienced. Bad people treat dogs badly and in turn create dogs that aren't well socialized. And I have to deal with them on a daily basis with nothing to defend myself except a dog stick. No pepper spray or anything (we get fired). So I've had to learn to assess what the situation is based on what I have seen and experienced, which may or may not be fair or polite, but my personal experience with the dogs in my part of the world keeps me from getting killed. They may not be the same everywhere.

I'm really sorry to keep harping on the point, but I've asked you twice now and twice you've avoided actually answering the question. Have you, personally, encountered any number of dogos acting this way?

ETA: I'm not offended by what you believe, simply pointing out that the same urban legends have been spread about a variety of other breeds, right down to the "gunpowder" myth. I am assuming you did not make that up on your own, nor are you likely to have actually seen meth producers feeding their dogs gun powder. So clearly, someone told you this, and it makes sense in your line of work... and any time you see a dogo (or akita) who doesn't bark at you, it reinforces your belief that the dog was simply waiting to murder you. I'm also trying to point out that it certainly doesn't help keep my breed out of the bad guys' hands to have people spreading this sort of breed-specific hyperbole on the internet.

I very, very much appreciate that you are underlining the fact that it's not the breed but the owner. I hope you can also understand my concerns, here.

[RitaRose]

I'm really sorry to keep harping on the point, but I've asked you twice now and twice you've avoided actually answering the question. Have you, personally, encountered any number of dogos acting this way?

Yes, I have, in person, multiple times though it is still fairly rare. Some are more eery than the others because they seem to be completely unemotional, in contrast to most dogs that are very obvious with their feelings and thoughts. One that was restrained was absolutely motionless except for its eyes. The only movement was when a person crossed in front of them, at which point their jaw closed (no other movement) and you could see it totally focused on the person, though still motionless. Like I said, when dogs stop moving and only their eyes are moving, they tend to bite. Just experience teachign me that.

ETA: I'm not offended by what you believe, simply pointing out that the same urban legends have been spread about a variety of other breeds, right down to the "gunpowder" myth. I am assuming you did not make that up on your own, nor are you likely to have actually seen meth producers feeding their dogs gun powder. So clearly, someone told you this, and it makes sense in your line of work... and any time you see a dogo (or akita) who doesn't bark at you, it reinforces your belief that the dog was simply waiting to murder you. I'm also trying to point out that it certainly doesn't help keep my breed out of the bad guys' hands to have people spreading this sort of breed-specific hyperbole on the internet.

If someone is spreading rumors, then it's also people that have those particular dogs. They're the ones telling me and my coworkers what happens. You'd be surprised at how much people will tell you when they believe you're not going to report them to any authorities. I hear about a wide assortment of ways to break the law or cheat the system in a number of ways. I don't know why people feel the need to tell us these things, or why they're so proud of it, but they do. I've had this job for almost 5 years, and it has been that way since the very beginning.

Someone decides pit bulls are evil, Sports Illustrated runs a cover story to the effect that pit bulls are evil and myths such as bait dogs and gunpowder, etc, and the next thing you know, everyone everywhere believes pit bulls are evil and that dog fighters use bait dogs and feed their dogs gunpowder. If good people like yourself (and I truly believe you are good-hearted and sensible about dogs in general) spread stories about my breed next, my breed becomes the next public enemy in the crosshairs because of those stories.

I don't think dogs are evil, regardless of breed, though any dog can be trained or mistreated so they act aggressively, and that's not surprising. People are cruel to other people, why would they treat animals any differently?

There are bait dogs. I've seen them myself, and it's terrible. I've had people brag about how they feed them gunpowder to make them angry. I don't know if it's true that it works that way, just that people have told me they've done it. I've seen more ways to be cruel to animals than I care to think about. It's one of the worst parts of my job. After all that I've seen over the years, I truly believe PEOPLE can be evil. I have no doubt of that. But dogs are a product of their breeding, training and treatment. And while no breed is better or worse than any other, I have seen certain breeds be the target of a minority of people who use those dogs to create an overly aggressive animal.

I wish it were all a lie and everyone treated their animals with love the way we do, but the reality is that they don't.