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Thread: Cholesterol - A Primer (Attempt 2) page 33

  1. #321
    Kilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albinorosy View Post
    Yes, high in mono/saturated fats as well as high in consumption of eggs, liver, brains, etc..
    My best understanding of a hypothesis via Masterjohn, Lalonde and my own cardiologist is that genetic defects in LDL recepters in the liver are the root problem of plaque build-up in the arteries. To combat one must find a way to:
    1. support healthy LDL recepter site function
    2 Lessen the time LDL is floating around in the blood
    3 Reduce the chance that the LDL will oxidize

    All seem in agreement that the best preventative solution is in fact a Paleo Diet. The question remains however, what about those individuals with existing heart disease. No one seems to address this specifically.
    I found this post on the forums with a good quote from Chris Masterjohn on the topic:

    "I think that targeting thyroid optimization and minimization of inflammation and oxidative stress should take priority because they are the most modifiable. But I think in this population one might also want to experiment with reducing fat and cholesterol intake, if it proves effective without interfering with other aspects of health. In other words if eating a Kitavan-style diet based on starch with moderate amounts of fish, fruit and coconut brings TC under 300 without causing digestive or blood glucose issues, then I think this would be superior to using a statin. I say this because FH makes a human more similar to herbivorous animals where the metabolism of lipids is intrinsically backed up so that dietary lipids may contribute to an accumulation and oxidation of lipids in the blood under conditions where they might contribute to health in most other people. "

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread49739.html

    I've switched to a Kitavan type diet and am going to get some follow up blood work in a few months. So we'll see if it helps at all.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paneristi View Post
    just got my results back from the lab
    Should I be concerned at how insanely high my Cholesterol up from Feb 2011

    Total CHOLESTERAL 4.42 now 5.51
    HDL CHOL = 1.02 now 1.06
    LDL CHOL = 2.79 now 3.78
    LDL/HDL RATIO = 2.7 now 3.36
    Triglycerides = 1.34 now 1.08
    Total Lipids 6.68

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
    No. You have improved. 5.5 is a good TC number. Keep lowering the trigs and raising HDL for optimal health
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

  3. #323
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    Well thanks for the feedback Peril

  4. #324
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    Great article Cliff! One small point there is not 3 types of Cholesterol. There is cholesterol and there are lipoproteins (HDL,LDL, VLDL) and triglycerides. Completely different substances. The lipoproteins are proteins that transport cholesterol through the blood. Here is an excellent article on this:

    The most important thing you probably don’t know about cholesterol

    Paleo Journey - Diary of my experience eating the Paleo Diet | Facebook

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilian View Post
    I found this post on the forums with a good quote from Chris Masterjohn on the topic:

    "I think that targeting thyroid optimization and minimization of inflammation and oxidative stress should take priority because they are the most modifiable. But I think in this population one might also want to experiment with reducing fat and cholesterol intake, if it proves effective without interfering with other aspects of health. In other words if eating a Kitavan-style diet based on starch with moderate amounts of fish, fruit and coconut brings TC under 300 without causing digestive or blood glucose issues, then I think this would be superior to using a statin. I say this because FH makes a human more similar to herbivorous animals where the metabolism of lipids is intrinsically backed up so that dietary lipids may contribute to an accumulation and oxidation of lipids in the blood under conditions where they might contribute to health in most other people. "

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread49739.html

    I've switched to a Kitavan type diet and am going to get some follow up blood work in a few months. So we'll see if it helps at all.
    thanks for the link kilian. I had not found that thread. How is the Kitavan diet working for you at this point?

  6. #326
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    I'd yell for Mark to make this a sticky, but I think it deserves more than that!

    I reckon you deserve an MDA guest post...

  7. #327
    Kilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albinorosy View Post
    thanks for the link kilian. I had not found that thread. How is the Kitavan diet working for you at this point?
    Wonderfully. Tons of energy (I can finally play/enjoy soccer again!), staying lean with no fat gain. I typically have a banana around lunch and then one large dinner each day consisting of sweet potatoes, green leafy vegetables, coconut milk, and fish. No more weird chest sensations which is probably a good sign.

  8. #328
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    I just got my blood test results back after a couple of months eating really poorly and gained about 8 lbs. The units I was given don't totally mesh up with other numbers I've seen on here and I'm wondering how to read them:

    A little background, I'm just about 33, 6'3" and stocky. my weight ranges from 225 to 240 depending on food and exercise. Though I'd really like to get down to around 210 or so. I'm learning to follow a primal diet, but I definitely get tempted way too often, and realize off and on that the foods I thought were primal are actually not. I do need to

    Cholesterol Total 6.25 mmol/L (3.8-5.2 normal range)
    Triglycerides: 1.96 mmol/L (0.6 - 2.3 normal range)
    HDL: 0.93 mmol/L (0.9-1.6 normal range)
    LDL: 4.43 mmol/L (2.0-3.4 normal range) ** Doctor was really worried about this
    Cholesterol Ratio: 6.7 which showed 2x average risk. (T/HDL-C)

    A couple other things he brought up:
    Ferritin 572 ug/L (20-250 normal) Said it was possible that I had just been sick
    High Sensitive CRP 8.4 mg/L (0.0-7.0 normal) Also brought up the possible sickness factor.

    Doc is really concerned about the LDL amount and the ratio, and I'm not sure how these units compare to others that have posted theirs.

    The doctor just gave me his hand-outs on the Mediterranean diet to lower the LDL numbers, but it talks about limiting red meat (of which I mostly eat grass fed, but a few times a week), only eat eggs 2x per week, mentions breaks and pasta as good foods, etc.

    Some other items I saw that I really didn't like were:

    Try to eat: Plain breads etc, low fat baked goods, margarine made with safflower/corn/sunflower oil, cook with soybean oil, unsaturated fats, low fat milk, low fat yogurt, low fat cheeses.

    Limit: Coconut or coconut oil, cream sauce, butter, lard, meat fat, palm oil, sour cream/cream cheese, chocolate, fatty ground meat, bacon, sausage, organ meats, cream, yogurt, whole milk cheeses.

    From what I've read, this seems counterintuitive to staying healthy.
    Last edited by Jesse; 06-12-2012 at 02:42 PM.

  9. #329
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    Most of the results you see posted here are in mg/dL which are the units used in the US. Most of the world uses mmol/L. You can convert from one to the other using Convert Cholesterol Units

    Your numbers aren't bad at all. If your doctor is really worried about your LDL, ask him for the particle size breakdown, & when he gives you a blank look, just smile & walk away. Ignore the diet advice, & avoid the sugar & grains, & all will be fine with the world.

  10. #330
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    Jesse, you can plug your numbers into a cholesterol converter like this site and you get

    Quote Originally Posted by your cholesterol numbers
    Cholesterol Total 6.25 mmol/l = 241.686 mg/dl (3.8-5.2 normal range)
    Triglycerides: 1.96 mmol/l = 173.60496 mg/dl (0.6 - 2.3 normal range)
    HDL: 0.93 mmol/l = 35.96288 mg/dl (0.9-1.6 normal range)
    LDL: 4.43 mmol/l = 171.30704 mg/dl (2.0-3.4 normal range) ** Doctor was really worried about this
    Cholesterol Ratio: 6.7 which showed 2x average risk. (T/HDL-C)
    Sadly, those are bad numbers. Specifically, your HDL is way too low. Here's what your ratios are:

    Total/HDL: 242/36 or 6.7 (ideal = 5 or below)
    Trig/HDL: 173/36 or 4.8 (ideal = 2 or below)
    LDL/HDL: 171/36 or 4.8 (ideal = 4.3 or below)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
    The doctor just gave me his hand-outs on the Mediterranean diet to lower the LDL numbers, but it talks about limiting red meat (of which I mostly eat grass fed, but a few times a week), only eat eggs 2x per week, mentions breaks and pasta as good foods, etc.

    Some other items I saw that I really didn't like were:

    Try to eat: Plain breads etc, low fat baked goods, margarine made with safflower/corn/sunflower oil, cook with soybean oil, unsaturated fats, low fat milk, low fat yogurt, low fat cheeses.

    Limit: Coconut or coconut oil, cream sauce, butter, lard, meat fat, palm oil, sour cream/cream cheese, chocolate, fatty ground meat, bacon, sausage, organ meats, cream, yogurt, whole milk cheeses.

    From what I've read, this seems counterintuitive to staying healthy.
    Yeah, that *is* completely counterintuitive to staying healthy, but to be fair to CW, it is making an honest attempt at health, it's just solving the wrong problem. You don't want to lower your cholesterol. You want to INCREASE your HDL (while leaving the others alone or reducing them). So I would recommend that you switch the "do" and "don't" lists around, and as an additional point you should cut out all processed foods, cereals, PUFAs and sugar. Excess carbs are converted to trigs, so maybe try to cut down on carbs.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 06-12-2012 at 03:03 PM.

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